Are Mormons Christians?

[Flyonthewall]

Are Mormons Christians?

The first time I began asking myself this question was during those Yahoo! chat room missionary discussions with Avatar4321, when he was 18 and I was 16. At first our conversations were friendly, stuff like "well I believe X" to which he would reply "and I believe Y." But our confrontations became more and more... um... confrontational. He would challenge me to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it, and I would weakly reply that he ought to read the Bible and pray about whether or not it was God's only scripture, but he would reply without missing a beat, "I HAVE!" And our conversations turned into fights. I got in one little fight and my mom got scared, she said "You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air!" I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said "FRESH" and it had dice in the mirror. If anything I can say this cab was rare, but I thought "Now forget it" - "Yo homes to Bel Air!" I pulled up to the house about 7 or 8 and I yelled to the cabbie, "Yo homes smell ya later." I looked at my kingdom, I was finally there, to sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air.

This chestnut of a topic has now been BEL AIR'ed!

/exit thread

[Hoops22]

Man is imperfect.

What if he doesn't believe man is imperfect?

Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc.,

Can't they follow the teachings of Jesus? After all, those teachings are fairly universally acclaimed as "good".

[Tchild2]

Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of Mormonism. Mormonism is as Christian as it gets. What does it matter the few or many peripheries of Mormonism that differ from other Christian sects if the central theme, goal and purpose is to become "Christlike" and to partake of the atonement of Jesus?

[coolrok7]

Joseph claimed that (his words not God's):

I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof. (POGP, JOSEPH SMITHâ??HISTORY, 1:19)

He started with the false charges. We're answering as asked.

[ed2276]

Joseph claimed that (his words not God's):

I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof. (POGP, JOSEPH SMITHâ??HISTORY, 1:19)

He started with the false charges. We're answering as asked.

Excuse me, but his words were reporting what God (God's words) had TOLD him. Joseph was "told" that he must join none of them. "The Personage who addressed me said..." So, your first premise, that what Joseph was reporting were his own words, not God's, is false.

And, since it was God who made the charges I assume that they were not false. If you want to dispute what God said that is your prerogative. Good luck to you.

[Daniel Peterson]

He started with the false charges. We're answering as asked.

With false charges?

Admirable.

Neither Joseph nor those who have accepted his prophetic calliing have ever asserted that Catholics or Protestants or the Orthodox are non-Christians. They are Christians, and so are we.

It's that simple.

No matter how much anti-Mormons torture the language and the evidence, there is no cogent reason for denying that Latter-day Saints are Christians. None. The arguments advanced to thrust us from Christendom rest, without any exception of which I'm aware, on selective use of evidence, lexical tricks, and/or sophistry.

It's a very low business, and a shameful one.

[Garden Girl]

This topic? Again?

As far as I am concerned, Catholics are Christians, as are Methodists, Baptists, and other Christians who follow Jesus and believe in the bible, including Latter Day Saints... who believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer of the World etc.

What I don't get... is why all the problem because LDS believe in a Godhead consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit... instead of a Trinity consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the nature of which was debated and developed by a Council of men (priests) who argued to the point that a good many of the Council participants walked out because they didn't agree with the concept being developed, i.e., the concept of the Trinity. But the majority won out and the Trinity became the interpretation of the nature of God for "Christianity."

Of course we base our belief of the "Godhead" upon modern revelation given to our prophets in these latter days... we also believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, our Savior and Redeemer, that he is divine, that he died for our sins on the cross, was resurrected, and that it is through his grace we are saved... I don't know why we have to have this same discussion round and round.

Garden Girl

[ed2276]

With false charges?

Admirable.

Neither Joseph nor those who have accepted his prophetic calliing have ever asserted that Catholics or Protestants or the Orthodox are non-Christians. They are Christians, and so are we.

It's that simple.

No matter how much anti-Mormons torture the language and the evidence, there is no cogent reason for denying that Latter-day Saints are Christians. None. The arguments advanced to thrust us from Christendom rest, without any exception of which I'm aware, on selective use of evidence, lexical tricks, and/or sophistry.

It's a very low business, and a shameful one.

Dang it, Dr. Peterson! You get right to the meat of the issue, don't you? However badly our critics might feel about the statement, whether from Joseph or from God, the fact reamins that we LDS don't deny that they are Christians.

Makes the question of whose words they were not quite such an issue with respect to whether our critics are Christians or not, doesn't it?

[Tarski]

Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of Mormonism. Mormonism is as Christian as it gets. What does it matter the few or many peripheries of Mormonism that differ from other Christian sects if the central theme, goal and purpose is to become "Christlike" and to partake of the atonement of Jesus?

I would myself have to confess that I find in some Mormon literature a vision of Jesus Christ far more noble and impressive than what I hear about in the EV mega-churches. If the whole Christ story were true, He would have to be more that a name to drop at the pearly gates to get into heaven (a simplton's version of grace). He would seem to be a model of ideal human behavior and one that one should not give up on aiming for. The vision of Christ I found spoken of among my extended family (all LDS) is rather more reasonant with my read of the NT than that found in fundamentalist EV churches. My experience is somewhat limited but from what I can tell, some people might be worshiping the wrong Jesus, but it isn't Mormons (assuming for the sake of argument that the whole Christ story and its supernatural aspects were true).

I suspect the Christ described by the central and most shining parts of the NT inspires even some atheists who take the Christ to be a partly fictional character.

[coolrok7]

Excuse me, but his words were reporting what God (God's words) had TOLD him. Joseph was "told" that he must join none of them. "The Personage who addressed me said..." So, your first premise, that what Joseph was reporting were his own words, not God's, is false.

And, since it was God who made the charges I assume that they were not false. If you want to dispute what God said that is your prerogative. Good luck to you.

No excuse needed and I also don't need luck (just discernment as given through the Holy Spirit of Scripture), but to just depend on the promises of God according to His Word, not the word of "false prophets". Joseph's claim can be tested by the same Scripture that he denied:

While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God. For how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know, for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passage of scripture so differently so as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible, . . .I at length came to the determination to â??ask of Godâ? (POGP, JOSEPH SMITH-HISTORY 1:11-13)

God has already given us fair warning by Jesus and the apostles already contained in the Scripture as delivered in the first century. Your prerogative to accept Joseph's word. We all will answer to God ultimately for who we believe.

Other Mormon leaders statements:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie stated, â??Men can get nearer to the Lord, can have more of the spirit of conversion and conformity in their hearts, can have stronger testimonies, and can gain a better understanding of the doctrines of salvation through the Book of Mormon than they can through Bible. . . .There will be more people saved in the kingdom of Godâ??ten thousand times overâ??because of the Book of Mormon than there will be because of the Bible.â? (Address at Book of Mormon Symposium, Brigham Young University, 18 Aug., 1978.) (The Ensign, Pres. Benson, Nov. 1984, p.7)â?

Third, how important is the Book of Mormon? Joseph Smith called it â??the keystone of our religion.â? (History of the Church, 4:461.) â??Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations,â? he said, â??and where is our religion? We have none.â? (History of the Church, 2:52.). . .(The Ensign, President Ezra Taft Benson, Nov. 1984, p.6)

the everlasting gospel could not be discovered through reading the Bible alone. . .this is the only Christian church in the world that did not have to rely upon the Bible for its organization and government. . . (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, LeGrand Richards, p.40)

There is a spiritual power in the Book of Mormon that is unique to all other scriptures, . . .(The Ensign, Pres. Benson, Sept. 1987, p.78)

I don't trust them and their stated view of the Bible which leaves a lot to be desired.

[thesometimesaint]

From the Articles of Faith

#8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

[Akboy]

What it boils down to is how inclusive or exclusive of a definition is used.

We as mormons, use an inclusive definition, that is anyone who believes in Christ as the son of God and redeemer of the world, is christian. It does not matter that we disagree on the interpretation of scripture, our God is the same.

Traditional christians seem to use the exclusive definition - you must believe as I do or you are not christian. If you interpret scriptures differently, then you do not worship the same God I do.

We each are looking towards the same God, we just have different perspectives.

When Mormons say the LDS church is the only church with the full truth, it's basically the same as EVs saying their churches are the only Christian churches. Both groups will admit other religions have partial truth, and both will say they are the group with the full truth. They both use exclusive language. Mormons say 'you must believe as I do or you're not following the full truth and you're not in God's church.' EVs say 'you must believe as I do or you're not following the full truth and therefore not christian'.

We're both exclusive, we just use different terms.

[ed2276]

(ed2276 @ Aug 28 2008, 10:21 PM)

Excuse me, but his words were reporting what God (God's words) had TOLD him. Joseph was "told" that he must join none of them. "The Personage who addressed me said..." So, your first premise, that what Joseph was reporting were his own words, not God's, is false.

And, since it was God who made the charges I assume that they were not false. If you want to dispute what God said that is your prerogative. Good luck to you.

No excuse needed and I also don't need luck (just discernment as given through the Holy Spirit of Scripture), but to just depend on the promises of God according to His Word, not the word of "false prophets". Joseph's claim can be tested by the same Scripture that he denied:

While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God. For how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know, for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passage of scripture so differently so as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible, . . .I at length came to the determination to â??ask of Godâ? (POGP, JOSEPH SMITH-HISTORY 1:11-13)

Except that you again misstate the evidence. Joseph did not deny the scriptures, he denied that he could find an answer to his question by appealing to the understanding of scripture that the various professors had of the verses in question.

Now, you want to engage in Tannerism with the use of ellipsis to make it appear that Joseph lost all confidence in the Bible as the source for an answer to his questions, and so rejected the Bible. But we LDS, who know the continuation of the story, see right through your dishonesty, as we know that it was Joseph's own reflection on a biblical verse he read that led him to apply the scripture in his own life, retire to the woods, and pray to God. Far from abandoning the Bible by coming to a determination to ask of God, he relied on the Bible, which led him to do just as it directed him.

God has already given us fair warning by Jesus and the apostles already contained in the Scripture as delivered in the first century.

Your prerogative to accept Joseph's word.

I didn't just accept Joseph's word. I accepted the witness I received from God.

We all will answer to God ultimately for who we believe.

Quite so. See you there!

Other Mormon leaders statements:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie stated, â??Men can get nearer to the Lord, can have more of the spirit of conversion and conformity in their hearts, can have stronger testimonies, and can gain a better understanding of the doctrines of salvation through the Book of Mormon than they can through Bible. . . .There will be more people saved in the kingdom of Godâ??ten thousand times overâ??because of the Book of Mormon than there will be because of the Bible.â? (Address at Book of Mormon Symposium, Brigham Young University, 18 Aug., 1978.) (The Ensign, Pres. Benson, Nov. 1984, p.7)â?

Third, how important is the Book of Mormon? Joseph Smith called it â??the keystone of our religion.â? (History of the Church, 4:461.) â??Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations,â? he said, â??and where is our religion? We have none.â? (History of the Church, 2:52.). . .(The Ensign, President Ezra Taft Benson, Nov. 1984, p.6)

the everlasting gospel could not be discovered through reading the Bible alone. . .this is the only Christian church in the world that did not have to rely upon the Bible for its organization and government. . . (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, LeGrand Richards, p.40)

There is a spiritual power in the Book of Mormon that is unique to all other scriptures, . . .(The Ensign, Pres. Benson, Sept. 1987, p.78)

I don't trust them and their stated view of the Bible which leaves a lot to be desired

I do.

In light of the "plain and precious things" that have been lost from the Bible in consequence of either the carelessness or connivance of those who altered the biblical text, and your own damming of revelation and scripture, I would much rather trust them than you or those who muddled the biblical record and the true doctrines of Christ.

[Flyonthewall]

When Mormons say the LDS church is the only church with the full truth, it's basically the same as EVs saying their churches are the only Christian churches. Both groups will admit other religions have partial truth, and both will say they are the group with the full truth. They both use exclusive language. Mormons say 'you must believe as I do or you're not following the full truth and you're not in God's church.' EVs say 'you must believe as I do or you're not following the full truth and therefore not christian'.

We're both exclusive, we just use different terms.

I see what you are saying, but there still is a big difference.

EV's not only say we have it wrong, but we don't even worship the same God. EV's say we are a satanic cult.

We say that they are following the same God, just without the whole truth. We say they are christian too.

The "exclusive" language we use on our worst day, is a lot more inclusive than their language on their best.

[Akboy]

I see what you are saying, but there still is a big difference.

EV's not only say we have it wrong, but we don't even worship the same God. EV's say we are a satanic cult.

We say that they are following the same God, just without the whole truth. We say they are christian too.

The "exclusive" language we use on our worst day, is a lot more inclusive than their language on their best.

Most EVs don't say you're a satanic cult. Most EVs are a bit more diplomatic than that. I've heard some Mormons say we party and drink all night because we believe in a 'grace alone' salvation. But I know most Mormons are more diplomatic than that.

Neither side is perfect, but that doesn't mean we should bring up each other's faults.

As long as we're not tossing around insults like that, what's wrong about being open about our faith?

If a branch of Christianity becomes corrupted and they no longer follow God's teachings on worship, are they still worshiping God? How corrupt would they have to become before you would say they were no longer worshiping God? What if they started to believe human sacrifice is a required part of worshiping God? Would they still be worshiping God? If not, who or what would they be worshiping?

My point is worshiping God is about more than sincerely believing you're worshiping God. If you have a significant misunderstanding about what God is and what He wants, then you'll be worshiping something other than God.

[johnny]

Rommelator

Like Mormons. â?¦ Or Godhead, take your pick. â?¦Like Mormons believe â?¦ Hm.... just like Mormons do.

Mormons believe Jesus is the son of heavenly mother and the Son of God.

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Mormons believe in a Godhead that contains three Gods.

Christians believe in a Godhead that contains one God.

Mormons believe Christ did â??his partâ? to atone for our sins.

Christians believe Christ died for our sins.

Mormons hope in eternal life through eternal marriage.

Catholics hope in eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection.

Hey! I have seen that happen to in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well! Cool!

Mormons baptize in the name F,S,HG but the words F,S,HG have for the Mormons a meaning totally different from the Christian meaning.

Yeah, just like the early Israelites and Christians. â?¦ What a sad proof text. First, a better translation of the Shema, as provided by M. Smith, states: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, our God alone". Smith then shows evidence that this verse is not excluding the existence of other gods per se, but rather is establishing YWHW's eminence in the Divine Council.

With the words "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord" Jesus taught that there is one God; and there is none other but he. Jesus did not teach â??three Godsâ? like Joseph Smith. The early Christians did not believe in â??three Godsâ? like Joseph Smith taught. The early Christian bishop who was ordained by the apostle Peter taught â??one Godâ?.

Christians are disciples of Christ, the disciples of Christ continue in his word, Christians continue in "there is one God".

This is begging the question. Mormons are Christians and they accept the Book of Mormon.

Mormons are Mormons they believe the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon reveals a different gospel, the BoM reveals we are saved â??after all we can doâ?. The Bible reveals â??by grace are ye saved through faith â?¦ Not of worksâ?.

Such as?

There are other differences between Mormons and Christians such as Mormons believe that the Lord told Joseph Smith that â??all their creeds were an abomination in his sightâ?.

[Tanyan]

For Johnny as other non LDS Christians see him see -

http://www.christianbeliefs.org/articles/peter&rome.html

http://www.bible.ca/g-wrong-baptism.htm

http://www.christianbeliefs.org/articles/romanism.html

There are more but remember johnny to avoid mote/bram syndrom and casting stones

In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[Tanyan]

Johnny you are repeating yourself again and again and again, you need to work on that OCB. .

Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[Tchild2]

I suspect the Christ described by the central and most shining parts of the NT inspires even some atheists who take the Christ to be a partly fictional character.

I was thinking about this thread when I was preparing for bed last night and pondering whether someone atheist or agnostic might be deemed "Christian" if they tried to lead a "Christlike" life? A person can adopt the ideals taught by Jesus without the attachments of supernaturalism; literal resurrection & literal son of God, as some sort of pre-requisite to being an authentic Christian. The teachings of Jesus may be from a real person or possibly an amalgam of various people. However, they still exist despite their source, that invite one to emulate or not. Those who do, are Christians IMO, no matter their religious affiliation.

Christianity isn't about "believe", but emulation.

[Mudcat]

Hey guys....sorry to serious up your all your fun here, but we are having a debate.....aren't we...er you....

What does it take to be considered a "Christian"?....

Seriously....I don't think it takes much to be 'considered' a Christian, by other people that is.

The real question is....

What does to it take to be/become a Christian?

My thought on the matter would......

To be a Christian, you must be called unto repentance by the Holy Spirit, through the message of the Gospel of Christ.

After being called, it is up to the Christian to repent, accept that Jesus is their Savior and do their best to follow him and his teachings.....of which I count Baptism as his 1st teaching.

[Flyonthewall]

Most EVs don't say you're a satanic cult. Most EVs are a bit more diplomatic than that.

That's good to hear.

I've heard some Mormons say we party and drink all night because we believe in a 'grace alone' salvation. But I know most Mormons are more diplomatic than that.

I have not heard any mormons say EV's party and drink all night because you believe in 'grace alone' salvation, but that it allows for that without consequence.

Neither side is perfect, but that doesn't mean we should bring up each other's faults.

Agreed.

As long as we're not tossing around insults like that, what's wrong about being open about our faith?

We should not be tossing around insults to begin with as it is not part of my faith and I would hope that it is not part of yours.

If a branch of Christianity becomes corrupted and they no longer follow God's teachings on worship, are they still worshiping God? How corrupt would they have to become before you would say they were no longer worshiping God? What if they started to believe human sacrifice is a required part of worshiping God? Would they still be worshiping God? If not, who or what would they be worshiping?

When Abraham was visited by angels and told he would have a child and be the father of many nations, was he counted as a righteous man in the sight of the Lord("Christian", since the OT points to Christ)? How about when he was taking Isaac up to sacrafice him? How about when he tied Isaac to the altar? How about when he raised the knife to sacrafice him? What do you think his family and freind would have thought about him had they known? They most likely would have thought him mad, and had fallen out of favor with the Lord. I only bring this up because you brought up human sacrifice.

My point is worshiping God is about more than sincerely believing you're worshiping God. If you have a significant misunderstanding about what God is and what He wants, then you'll be worshiping something other than God.

I know we've been down this road before, and I still thing this is a very narrow minded view of things(note, not calling you narrow minded). Let me ask you this - Does God hold someone who has never heard of Jesus, to the same standard as you? How about someone who wants to follow Jesus, but has not been taught properly? Will they be judged using the same criteria as you?

[BarrelO'Mangoes]

LDS are Christians. I don't understand these interfaith battles. That the LDS Church emphasizes Christ and his teachings is something that is quite lovely, to me, and I appreciate it. You would think other Christians would appreciate it, as well, yet, apparently some don't. I don't understand it, really. Of course around here Baptists can't stand the Methodists and no one likes Church of Christ. Oh, and those wascally Jehovah's Witnesses are despised by all.

It's so absurd, to me. If good people want to follow a man who taught ideals that most everyone agrees are noble and worthy to emulate why the fussing?

[consiglieri]

Mormons believe Jesus is the son of heavenly mother and the Son of God.

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Hi, Johnny!

Can you understand how this comment could be seen as somewhat ironic coming from a devout Catholic such as yourself?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[BarrelO'Mangoes]

There are other differences between Mormons and Christians such as Mormons believe that the Lord told Joseph Smith that “all their creeds were an abomination in his sight”.

I wonder what similarities there are? Can you list those?

It appears, to me, that Christ would want his followers to look to commonalities and through love an understanding of each other.

[coolrok7]

With false charges?

Admirable.

Neither Joseph nor those who have accepted his prophetic calliing have ever asserted that Catholics or Protestants or the Orthodox are non-Christians. They are Christians, and so are we.

It's that simple.

No matter how much anti-Mormons torture the language and the evidence, there is no cogent reason for denying that Latter-day Saints are Christians. None. The arguments advanced to thrust us from Christendom rest, without any exception of which I'm aware, on selective use of evidence, lexical tricks, and/or sophistry.

It's a very low business, and a shameful one.

The â??weâ??re answering as askedâ? is in reference to the question of the op. Anytime a â??falseâ? charge is made against anyone for whatever reason, Biblically speaking is to bear false witness and should be rejected, regardless of who makes the false charge:

Following the death of the apostles, revelation ceased. The authority of God was no longer among men. Christianity sickened and died. In time, a new religion grew up in its placeâ??a religion that professed to be Jesus Christâ??s Church, but which in reality was a conglomerate of pagan worship and Greek philosophy, â??having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.â?. . .that eventually led to the complete apostasy of the true church and the eventual creation of an apostate religion that has been responsible for the extermination of the Messiahâ??s true followers and the persecution of his chosen people, the Jews. . . . (APOSTASY AND RESTORATION pamphlet, p.9)

The Biblical teaching on apostasy (or falling away- the truth has to be there to fall away from) is taught through the apostle Paul. The Holy Spirit says that â??someâ? would fall away from the faith, not that the truth would be lost or that the church would be destroyed (â??someâ? does not mean â??allâ?):

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, . . .In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following. (1 Timothy 4:1 2, 6)

The realization that the Lordâ??s true church was not only vulnerable, but destructible, comes as a shock to many people. But if wicked men were able to put to death the Messiah himself, is it so strange that they should have power to destroy his church?(APOSTASY AND RESTORATION pamphlet, p.11)

Iâ??m not against Mormons as people, but against what I believe (perceive) to be not in accordance with Biblical, historical Christianity. I do not say this with any meanness but of a intellectual/heartfelt conviction based on what I previously believed before I knew anything of â??Mormonismâ?.

There is a saying that goes like this:

Itâ??s hard for the heart to accept what the mind rejectsâ?.

What Iâ??ve experienced the last thirty some odd years in studying, experiencing Mormonism by association in a learning context from Mormons themselves, Iâ??m not persuaded that what Joseph taught, what came out of his own mouth and recorded and identified as â??Scriptureâ?, is really â??Scriptureâ? from God. I believe Mormon so-called â??Scripture is to be rejected. Mormons are of course at liberty to not agree.

Iâ??m open to being persuaded but so far Iâ??m not. This has nothing to do with hating Mormons but wanting the best for everyone (Mormons included) in the sense of believing the Gospel and having eternal life:

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against Godâ??s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written:

â??For Your sake we are killed all day long;

We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.â?

Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:31-39)

I say none of these things in a spirit of animosity toward Mormons (or any other groups mentioned), only for false doctrine. I offer this in Christian love (agape) for the edifying of the body of Christ. This would include denounce-ing the practice of those who would, â??misrepresent what we teach.â?:

As always, there are self-appointed spokesman who scoff at what we believe and misrepresent what we teach. (The Ensign, Elder Boyd K. Packer, Nov. 1984, p.66)

But at the LDS Churchâ??s General Conference in October 1983, Elder Gordon B. Hinckley of the churchâ??s ruling First Presidency lashed out at those â??who have taken upon themselves as their mission to belittle and demean and destroy the faith of the weak, with a badly flawed argument that we are not Christians.â? (Newsweek, March 4, 1985, p.65)

I was handed a tract the other day. It was written by a critic, an enemy of the Church whose desire is to undermine the faith of the weak and the unknowing. It repeats fallacies that have been parroted for a century and more. It purports to set forth what you and I, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, believe. (The Ensign, President Gordon B. Hinckley, Nov. 1986, p.49)

The following are the basics of what I believe (not how LDS represent my beliefs). I thought Iâ??d share these for some contrast with your own. The following is derived from Biblical teaching (where my faith comes from before I knew anything about the BOM- none are dependent on the BOM to be true):

I am convinced/persuaded (Romans 8:38-39; Acts 26:15-29) that the following is true and is based on the written testimony of Scripture (2 Peter 1: 15-21), accompanied by the witness of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:27, 32, John 14:16-17). He has convicted me concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment (John 16:.

* For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

* Sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4).

* I am a sinner (Psalm 51:5; Romans 3:19-20b).

* The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23a): presently- dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1- 3; 1 Timothy 5:6): physical death- separation of the spirit from the body (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Luke 16:22-23; Acts 7:59-60; James 2:26): eternally- away from the presence of God in the lake of fire (also called outer darkness) where they (unbelievers along with Satan and the fallen angels) after the resurrection will be tormented day and night forever and ever (Revelation 20:10-15; see also Matthew 25:31-46).

* Godâ??s desire is to save sinners from His eternal wrath/punishment (John 3:14-21; Colossians 3:5-17; Hebrews 6:2; 9:27).

* This desire of God to save people is a gift, given to believers in His Son Jesus Christ in which is eternal life called or known as the Gospel or Good News (John 17:3; Romans 6:23b; Galatians 3:22).

* The Gospel by definition is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

* I have received the promise (gift) of eternal life by grace (unmerited favor) through faith (Ephesians 2.8-10), that I am justified by faith as testified to by my works and faith is reckoned as righteousness (Romans 3:22-4:, and I am sanctified (set apart for work or service) by faith in Jesus (Acts 26:18; Hebrews 10) which was paid for in full by His blood (the atonement) (1 Peter 1:2; Revelation 1:5). I have the assurance of the apostle John (1 John 5:13) and the apostle Paul (Romans 10:1-15) along with the apostle Peter (2 Peter 1:1).

* That I am a child of God (John 1:12) and commanded to proclaim this Good News to others (Matthew 28:18-20) to insure salvation not only for myself but for them as well (1 Timothy 4:13-16).

* That as a child of God (post salvation) it is important to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3:18). This is referred to as sanctification and is a process of becoming mature as opposed to remaining a baby (Hebrews 5:11-6:3).

* Along with the preaching of the Gospel comes a warning of the coming of false

prophets and teachers (Matthew 7:15; 24:23-25; 2 Peter 2:1-3). Both from

inside and outside of the church (Acts 20:28-31).

* These prophets and teachers will be preaching another Jesus, a different Spirit,

and a different Gospel (2 Corinthians 11:1-4) with the purpose of leading people

away (knowingly or unknowingly) from the true God (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

Paul exhorts us to test all things and to hold fast to that which is good (1

Thessalonians 5:21). We can do this by examining ourselves to see if we are in

the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5) and to test the messages of spirits that claim to

have come from God (1 John 4:1-6), in the light of what has already been once

for all delivered to the saints (Jude vs.3; Acts 17:2-3, 11).

* John writes (Scripture) the following as a word of encouragement in both his Gospel and Epistle: â??Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.â? (John 20:30-31) and â??These things I have, written to you who believe in the, name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.â?? (1 John 5:13).

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:8-9)

These things I know with my mind and believe with all my heart and confess with my mouth, that Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, is the foundation upon Whom Christianity rests. â??This is most certainly trueâ?

I would agree with Six, that the following noted behavior is â??disgustingâ?:

â??Why I have a problem with Evangelicalism. (Roundtable XII, p.8, 1/16/05, 12:09 am)

They stand on soapboxes at LDS spiritual services and scream at Mormons through bullhorns.

They desecrate our sacred temple garments and taunt us.

They tie our sacred scriptures to a leash and drag them on the ground along with the challenge to us to stop them. . . .

They have stood outside our temple and called our childrens and brides â??whores.â?

I've even had evangelical countercultists scream at my seven and eleven year-old children that they are "liars."

I am perfectly willing to accept that Evangelicals disagree with other religions. I accept that they want with all their hearts to save Mormons and other so-called cultists. But I find the tactics they use to accomplish their mission against the cults disgusting.

Regards,

Sixâ?

Not all â??Evangelicalsâ? are responsible for the behavior and I would not condone any of the above or like behavior. Christians are called (as saints) to:

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1 Peter 3:15)

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

From my perspective as a saint with a Christian faith, the source of written authority that I look to is the Bible (Sola Scriptura). This view of Scripture is opposed by many of the groups that have a later beginning in time as compared with first century Christianity (the exceptions being the heresies, such as gnosticism, addressed by the apostle John in 1 John, that developed early on along with the spreading of the faith).

The New Testament along with the Old Testament (interpreted correctly and in context) are what establish the points of Biblical doctrine that one is required to believe in order to be saved in the kingdom of God (escape from eternal punishment).

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:4-7)