Rommelator Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Alright, all of you critics who do not think that Mormons are Christians, lets hear your reasoning on this thread.
Bond...James Bond Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 I'll give it to ya. Mormons are Christian. Which means you're all freakin' nuts.
Tanyan Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Alright, all of you critics who do not think that Mormons are Christians, lets hear your reasoning on this thread. Rommelator, suggestion, perhaps you should ask if "Mormonism" is Christian instead of are Mormons Christian which would be the appropriate question to ask . Just an observation. In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.
Rommelator Posted August 28, 2008 Author Posted August 28, 2008 perhaps you should ask if "Mormonism" is Christian instead of are Mormons Christian which would be the appropriate question to askI will keep that in mind next time.
Tanyan Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 I'll give it to ya. Mormons are Christian. Which means you're all freakin' nuts. Remember that there are Mormons that are not Christian in there walk just as there are non LDS Christian who are not in there walk. Saved By Charis Through Pistis, In His Debt/Grace Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.
Sargon Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Wasn't there an enormous thread on this exact subject a while back, with a very similar subtitle even?Edit: Yep, there was.http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php...c=33354&hl=
Hoops22 Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Rommelator, suggestion, perhaps you should ask if "Mormonism" is Christian instead of are Mormons Christian which would be the appropriate question to ask . Just an observation. In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.Yep, the question as posed is unanswerable. Just like you (all) can't say if I am or not.Edited to add:Despite all the evidence against me.
Sargon Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php...c=33354&hl=
johnny Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 RommelatorAlright, all of you critics who do not think that Mormons are Christians, lets hear your reasoning on this thread.Below is what ETWN, a Catholic TV station, wrote on the matter:A Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and that he died for our sins, and rose from the grave. A Christian believes that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection. A Christian is baptized with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. These teachings put Mormons outside the Christian faith because Mormons do not believe these things. Mormons believe that there are many gods, but the ancient faith of Isreal and of Christians professes "Hear O Isreal: The lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might" (Dueteronomy 6: 4-5) Christians do not recognize the Book of Mormon as a text inspired by God. There are other differences that would cause one to say that Mormons are not Christians, they are Mormons. These truths are said not in condemnation, but simply stated as truth. All Christians, Mormons, Muslims, and all humanity are dependent upon the grace and mercy of God
Manny Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 I'm not of that opinion, but I'll play devil's advocate (which ironically, is what some Christians would call LDS)1. Mormons are not Christians because their view of the nature of God is so vastly different, that even if they profess to follow Jesus, the Jesus they worship is not a member of the trinity, but a separate and distinct god, who is the brother of lucifer, and who suffered for the sins of the world in Gethsemane and then simply finished his sacrifice for sin on the cross. Further, some Mormons reject virgin birth by stating that some sort of physical intercourse occurred between the head of their Godhead and Mary. In addition, the Mormon Jesus preached to the people on the American continent. There is no evidence of this in the Bible other than an ambigous verse in John speaking of sheep of another fold. Therefore, even if the person the Mormons worship is called Jesus, he is vastly different from the Jesus of Christianity.2. Some Mormons reject the Grace of Christ by stating that good works are necessary for salvation. In addition, they think that ordinances are necessary for salvation. This means that faith in Christs endless Grace is insufficient. Therefore, their Jesus grace alone is insufficient.3. Mormons are in reality polytheistic and think that Christ is a progressing Being as oppossed to the Almighty God (and that there are other gods within the universe who have suffered similar sacrifices as Jesus).Therfore, the Jesus of Christianity and the Jesus of Mormonism are really two different beings altogether (in fact, Mormon Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley admitted so much).
SilverKnight Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 A Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and that he died for our sins, and rose from the grave. A Christian believes that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection. A Christian is baptized with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. These teachings put Mormons outside the Christian faith because Mormons do not believe these things. Wait a minute.... This is precisely what LDS believe!The litmus test you just gave blatantly INCLUDES mormonism in Christianity!! Dude, the fire cracker you tried to throw just blew up in your face!
Flyonthewall Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 RommelatorBelow is what ETWN, a Catholic TV station, wrote on the matter:A Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and that he died for our sins, and rose from the grave. A Christian believes that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection. A Christian is baptized with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. These teachings put Mormons outside the Christian faith because Mormons do not believe these things. Mormons believe that there are many gods, but the ancient faith of Isreal and of Christians professes "Hear O Isreal: The lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might" (Dueteronomy 6: 4-5) Christians do not recognize the Book of Mormon as a text inspired by God. There are other differences that would cause one to say that Mormons are not Christians, they are Mormons. These truths are said not in condemnation, but simply stated as truth. All Christians, Mormons, Muslims, and all humanity are dependent upon the grace and mercy of GodMormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Second Person of the Godhead, and that he died for our sins, and rose from the Grave. Mormons believe that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection. Mormons are baptized by immersion in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Yep, I can see why we are sooo much confusion on this matter.
Manny Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Wait a minute.... This is precisely what LDS believe!The litmus test you just gave blatantly INCLUDES mormonism in Christianity!! Dude, the fire cracker you tried to throw just blew up in your face!We don't believe he is the second person of the blessed trinity. We think he is the second member of the Godhead. That is a key difference for Christians.
cjcampbell Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 RommelatorBelow is what ETWN, a Catholic TV station, wrote on the matter:A Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and that he died for our sins, and rose from the grave. A Christian believes that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection. A Christian is baptized with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. These teachings put Mormons outside the Christian faith because Mormons do not believe these things. Mormons believe that there are many gods, but the ancient faith of Isreal and of Christians professes "Hear O Isreal: The lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might" (Dueteronomy 6: 4-5) Christians do not recognize the Book of Mormon as a text inspired by God. There are other differences that would cause one to say that Mormons are not Christians, they are Mormons. These truths are said not in condemnation, but simply stated as truth. All Christians, Mormons, Muslims, and all humanity are dependent upon the grace and mercy of GodThe trouble with that definition is that by those standards neither Jesus Christ nor the original Apostles are Christian. This is said not in condemnation, but simple truth.
blueadept Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Second Person of the Godhead, and that he died for our sins, and rose from the Grave. Mormons believe that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection. Mormons are baptized by immersion in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Yep, I can see why we are sooo much confusion on this matter. I'll let Johnny speak for himself and this particular topic is old..............................................1) I have no reason to not call my TBM wife a Christian,2) The RCC recognizes many other denominations baptism and base who they consider Christian based on whose baptism they recognize.3) The RCC does not recognize my TBM wife's baptism. When it comes down to it, the reason is because of the difference between the Trinity vs the LDS Godhead.Therefore, I do not have a 'sacramental' marriage because that only occurs between 2 baptized people. So in my case, LDS do not recognize my baptism (or any other baptism) and I can't have a temple marriage. So my wife and I are in the same boat. So the reason the RCC does not consider Mormons Christian IS because of our understanding of the nature of the triune G-d. I don't believe that LDS here will necessarily disagree that we have a different understanding here. It's the basis for how other Christian religions are meaning when they say that Mormons are not Christians.Being in the position that I am, I will never say Mormons are not Christian. In the same sense, I understand why other faiths do not.PeaceWhy did you start this thread??????????
SilverKnight Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 We don't believe he is the second person of the blessed trinity. We think he is the second member of the Godhead. That is a key difference for Christians.Something having to do with the trinity is the variable used to banish LDS from christianity.Shocking.So the reason the RCC does not consider Mormons Christian IS because of our understanding of the nature of the triune G-d. I don't believe that LDS here will necessarily disagree that we have a different understanding here. It's the basis for how other Christian religions are meaning when they say that Mormons are not Christians.Being in the position that I am, I will never say Mormons are not Christian. In the same sense, I understand why other faiths do not.PeaceWell said BlueAdept.
Rommelator Posted August 28, 2008 Author Posted August 28, 2008 RommelatorBelow is what ETWN, a Catholic TV station, wrote on the matter:A Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and that he died for our sins, and rose from the grave. A Christian believes that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection. A Christian is baptized with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. These teachings put Mormons outside the Christian faith because Mormons do not believe these things. Mormons believe that there are many gods, but the ancient faith of Isreal and of Christians professes "Hear O Isreal: The lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might" (Dueteronomy 6: 4-5) Christians do not recognize the Book of Mormon as a text inspired by God. There are other differences that would cause one to say that Mormons are not Christians, they are Mormons. These truths are said not in condemnation, but simply stated as truth. All Christians, Mormons, Muslims, and all humanity are dependent upon the grace and mercy of GodA Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of GodLike Mormons.the Second Person of the Blessed TrinityOr Godhead, take your pick.and that he died for our sins, and rose from the graveLike Mormons believe.A Christian believes that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection.Hm.... just like Mormons do.A Christian is baptized with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.Hey! I have seen that happen to in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well! Cool!These teachings put Mormons outside the Christian faith because Mormons do not believe these things.This is a flat out lie! Shame on EWTN for bearing such blatant and ignominious false witness.Mormons believe that there are many godsYeah, just like the early Israelites and Christians. "Hear O Isreal: The lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might" (Dueteronomy 6: 4-5)What a sad proof text. First, a better translation of the Shema, as provided by M. Smith, states: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, our God alone". Smith then shows evidence that this verse is not excluding the existence of other gods per se, but rather is establishing YWHW's eminence in the Divine Council.Christians do not recognize the Book of Mormon as a text inspired by God.This is begging the question. Mormons are Christians and they accept the Book of Mormon. There are other differences that would cause one to say that Mormons are not Christians, they are Mormons.Such as?These truths are said not in condemnation, but simply stated as truth. All Christians, Mormons, Muslims, and all humanity are dependent upon the grace and mercy of GodIt is as if this guy writing this is LDS. This is firmly taught in the LDS Church.Man, johnny, you really dropped the ball with this one. Is this seriously the best that EWTN could come up with? LOL!
Rommelator Posted August 28, 2008 Author Posted August 28, 2008 2) The RCC recognizes many other denominations baptism and base who they consider Christian based on whose baptism they recognize.3) The RCC does not recognize my TBM wife's baptism.Why would the RCC recognize other Christian denominations' baptisms but not those of the Latter-day Saints? It seems as if they feel threatened by them. Almost as if the Latter-day Saints have the authority to do such. Why did you start this thread??????????Because I wanted to.
Manny Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Something having to do with the trinity is the variable used to banish LDS from christianity.Shocking.Well said BlueAdept.It's a key difference for them...even if you sweep it under the rug as nonsense.
consiglieri Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 There are other differences that would cause one to say that Mormons are not Christians, they are Mormons.That's cool, Monkey-Boy.Because Catholics aren't Christians, either; they are Catholics.Gee, this game is fun.Let's plug in Baptists, too, why don't we.Or just any old denomination that doesn't believe the same way we do.I mean, that's really what's at bottom of all this, isn't it?All the Best!--Consiglieri
Manny Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 Why would the RCC recognize other Christian denominations' baptisms but not those of the Latter-day Saints? It seems as if they feel threatened by them. Almost as if the Latter-day Saints had the authority to do such.Because I wanted to.To answer your baptism question, it is because our view of the nature of God is heretical to the RCC. However, the nature of God in the opinion of non-Catholic Christians is very similar (even if they disagree on other doctrines) to the RCC's view. Rommelator, you seem to be impugning Johnny for his sincere and thorough response without giving him credit for the effort he put forth to answer a question that has apparently been asked several times before.
Rommelator Posted August 28, 2008 Author Posted August 28, 2008 Rommelator, you seem to be impugning Johnny for his sincere and thorough response without giving him credit for the effort he put forth to answer a question that has apparently been asked several times before.Oh Manny, if only you knew...
Manny Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 That's cool, Monkey-Boy.Because Catholics aren't Christians, either; they are Catholics.Gee, this game is fun.Let's plug in Baptists, too, why don't we.Or just any old denomination that doesn't believe the same way we do.I mean, that's really what's at bottom of all this, isn't it?All the Best!--ConsiglieriNo, the bottom of this is the LDS vastly different view of the nature of God. Is anyone reading or are you unconcerned with the answer to the question?Oh Manny, if only you knew...Knew what?
Rommelator Posted August 28, 2008 Author Posted August 28, 2008 No, the bottom of this is the LDS vastly different view of the nature of God.As opposed to who? Roman Catholics, Protestants or the early Christians and Hebrews?Knew what?Knew the kind of debates I have had with johnny in the past.
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