Ouija Boards And Evil Spirits

[emeliza]

Critics of ouji boards? So apologists here are not only defending the claims of Mormonism, but also the dark forces imbued into the cardboard and plastic made by Mattel Inc?

Imbued in the cardboard and plastic? My impression was that you were calling the spirits around you to speak, not talking to something imbued in cardboard and plastic.

I can't say I believe in the ouija board, but I don't discount it either. There are too many things I just don't know about. I do know that I personally have no desire to play with it either way.

[cinepro]

Critics of all claims to anything irreducible to particles, forces, and the void. Gosh, I do believe I even said that just a post ago...

But you said it in a thread where we are specifically discussing the efficacy of the board game called the "Ouija Board". The Ouija critics in this thread haven't tried to argue the board isn't really channeling spirits based on an irreducibility of the theory. The critics are arguing that supernatural forces aren't involved for the following reasons:

- The inconsistency of information derived from the board.

- The tendency humans have to make unconscious "micromovements" because we can't keep our muscles entirely still, which would explain the movement of the pointer.

- The inability of the pointer to move on its own. Why can spirits move the humans, but not the pointer?

- The presence of skeptics nullifying the effect (why do evil spirits care?)

- The complete failure of the board when any type of control is placed on the game.

Here is a test anyone can do if they believe in Ouija Boards.

-Blindfold the group of Ouija "users"

-Draw 10 cards from a deck of Rook or Uno cards. Make sure they are all number cards.

-Shuffle the cards.

-Have an observer sit near the Ouija Board. After the Ouija users are blindfolded, have the observer rotate the board in a random fashion so the users don't know the orientation of the board.

-Blindfold the card dealer, and have them sit out of sight from the observer.

-Have the card dealer choose the top card and call out "Card 1", and hold it in such a way that the spirits can see it, but the observer can't.

-Ask the spirits what number is on the card.

-If the Ouija participants are able to point to a number, have the observer note the number for "Card 1". Determine in advance the amount of time needed for the users/spirits to determine a number.

-The blindfolded card dealer places the card face down, and chooses the next card, calling out "Card 2".

-The process repeats through all 10 cards.

-Give the stack of cards and the observer's notes to a person not involved in the test. Have them score it for accuracy.

I'll bet anyone a million dollars that the spirits can't get more than 3 correct.

[Log]

I'll bet anyone a million dollars that the spirits can't get more than 3 correct.

What, exactly, would such a test prove, either way? And why would that be the only possible conclusion?

[It occurs to me . . .]

And posts like this reveal the blindness many people live with.

And there are those out there that hold Jesus in the same regard as Santa Claus....

You are aware that Saint Nicholas (a.k.a. Santa Claus) was a real person, don't you?

Heh??

You don't understand evil spirits and the Plan of Salvation??

Let's see...

Where were those that fought against G-d in the Pre-existence cast out to?

I'll give you a hint...

Here!

What does the fact that Saint Nicholas was real have to do with anything?

Of course you would deny actual experiences with these things as being figments of the imagination. I know that spirits on this earth are real, not because of myths and stories but because of experience with them. And I am not a fanciful person. I lived in a house in college where I was not alone in experiencing these things.

As we read in I Cor 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I have found that those who are spiritually sensitive to the good things of the spirit can often (not always) be more sensitive to the evil as well.

Neither of you have answered my question. How does evil spirits being able to see the future fit into the plan of salvation? Come on it's a simple question!

[It occurs to me . . .]

I've done a lot of reading on the early days of the church and some of the spiritual manifestations that led to confusion and to apostasy. I'm convinced of what the Doctrine & Covenants says is true, namely, that there are many false spirits abroad in the land. Many of our prophets have been shown in vision the power of the dark side.

Elder Heber C. Kimball recalled his experience in England: "While I was thus engaged I was struck with great force, by some invisible power, and fell senseless to the floor. The first thing I remembered was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards, who were praying for me. I then arose and sat upon the bed, when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could plainly see the evil spirits who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. They came toward us like armies rushing to battle." In a letter to Kimball from Elder Orson Hyde, Hyde wrote: "Every circumstance which occurred in that scene of devils is just as fresh in my recollection as it was at the time of its occurrence." Here again is another case of multiple witnesses experiencing the same event, and this is what sets Mormonism apart from all the other claimants. Every notable part of the Restoration has been witnessed. The restoration of the priesthood, the restoration of keys of authority by Elijah and Moses, the acceptance of temples replete with angels and the gifts of the spirit, the opposition of devils to the preaching of the Gospel in Europe. Even the revelation on priesthood in 1978 was witnessed and experienced by an entire group of men, when it could have just as easily been given only to one man, President Kimball.

The Lord doesn't provide these witnesses without a reason. In a world teaming with false prophets and blind guides, the Lord understands skepticism and has provided witnesses to establish a foundation of credibility. Not proof, but as a launching pad to discovering the truth. It's not surprising that those skeptical of religion would also be skeptical of evil spirits, and a belief in wicked spirits is not wholly necessary to accept the Gospel; still, the wise will try unknown spirits instead of believing them. And if there are no evil spirits, there is no Gospel, and Joseph Smith was not a prophet, neither was Jesus the Christ. So to call people "gullible" for believing a tenant of their religion is to call them gullible for accepting their religion, which is the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Do you really think that claiming posession by evil spirits puts the church apart in the 19th century? I think not claiming it would put them in the minority. A diary of epilepsy in the early 1800s

Ghost hunters who do their "investigations" with a psychic are immediately suspect to me. I've watched TAPS enough to have confidence in the integrity of their top people. I've seen a sound guy knocked senseless; I've seen another fellow fall to the ground, speechless and not able to breathe; I've also seen the sudden, hot rash that appeared on Jason's back as he entered a room in a house he was investigating. He said it was as if he were touched with a hot poker. I've also seen water faucets turn on, seemingly by themselves and I've heard voices that the researchers heard at the time. I've always been skeptical myself of EVPs, as with all the signals in the air these days, it's too easy for them to pop up on electronic medium, like recorders. But I think the evidence the TAPS people have gleaned is impressive and irrefutable. It's pretty difficult to put one over them and I trust their integrity. My only criticism of them is that they tend to believe what the spirits tell them.

See more about "Princess."

I'd be careful about basing your testimony of TAPS completely on watching their shows. See here for a differing point of view from responsible individuals

TAPS vs. SAPS (don't be one!!!)

[cinepro]

What, exactly, would such a test prove, either way? And why would that be the only possible conclusion?

A well designed and conducted test would help determine whether or not the results are the product of only the people using the board, or they are being aided by supernatural forces with additional knowledge not available to them. "Supernatural forces" wouldn't be the only conclusion of a test that showed statistically improbable success in determining the cards, but it would be a good start to asking (and testing) further questions.

On the other hand, a failed test that was no better than chance would strongly indicate that there were no additional forces providing support or knowledge.

Things like this are very, very tricky, and even the testers with the best intentions can be fooled. Here is an excellent account of how two amateur magicians fooled psychic researchers because their tests were poorly designed. Trust me, if you read enough about all the silly ways people have convinced themselves of things that turned out not to be true (Horses can't really do math), you'll become a skeptic too.

[Log]

A well designed and conducted test would help determine whether or not the results are the product of only the people using the board, or they are being aided by supernatural forces with additional knowledge not available to them.

Yes. What is wanted is a logical demonstration that your (or Randi's, as the case may be) proposal constitutes such a well-designed test. Illustrate how whatever conclusions you purport to be able to draw follow necessarily from the results of the test, and how all counterexplanations are precluded. Show how the test results can be universally applied to all Oija board experiences perforce.

Personally, I'm skeptical of the notion that such a test will have any easy generalization. After all, suppose I propose a test for some intelligence to perform task X, and said intelligence fails to perform X during the test. Have I precluded the intelligence's ability to perform X?

On the other hand, suppose X occurs. Have I demonstrated that the subject did X?

I bet, if Randi's test were passed, he wouldn't conclude there were evil spirits guiding oija boards, but rather he'd try to figure out how, exactly, the human subjects cheated.

[Gordon]

Critics of ouji boards? So apologists here are not only defending the claims of Mormonism, but also the dark forces imbued into the cardboard and plastic made by Mattel Inc?

I don't recall this being the case.

As I said already, it isn't about the board, itself, it's about the invite. The board isn't possesed, nor does each game come with it's own evil spirit straight from the factory. It is a means only....I might as well make my own ouija board out of a box, but it can serve the same purpose.

[Gordon]

What does the fact that Saint Nicholas was real have to do with anything?

You made an analogy between the ouija board and Santa Claus....I merely pointed out that St. Nic. (Santa) was real.

Neither of you have answered my question. How does evil spirits being able to see the future fit into the plan of salvation? Come on it's a simple question!

If an unfriendly spirit can make you think you could predict the future via boards, cards, the stars, etc., don't you think that person might rely on the Lord for answers less? Isn't leading people from the Lord (temptation and sin) and learning good from evil part of the Plan of Salvation?

[Deborah]

Neither of you have answered my question. How does evil spirits being able to see the future fit into the plan of salvation? Come on it's a simple question!

Who's talking about seeing the future? The issue is opening doors for evil spirits.

Once again the issue isn't a game board but what it historically represents.

[Gordon]

If the spirits are somehow able to physically move your arm, then they should also be able to physically move the pointer, right?

It did. There were no hands on the pointer when it "left" our board.

Or have everyone put their hands on the pointer, but specifically say that this is just a test, and you are not open to having any spirits help you. See what happens. (Hint: the pointer will move anyway).

And in what manner would it move?

One problem with your 'involuntary arm movement' theory, is that all the arms of each individual must be in accord.

Usually, my involuntary arm movement will be to one direction, while the others will be to their own...yet, you are saying they all involuntarily (and randomly) move togther to spell words....words that they have not spoken nor agreed to.

Does the ouija board somehow combine each consciousness into one collective?

[It occurs to me . . .]

You made an analogy between the ouija board and Santa Claus....I merely pointed out that St. Nic. (Santa) was real.

If an unfriendly spirit can make you think you could predict the future via boards, cards, the stars, etc., don't you think that person might rely on the Lord for answers less? Isn't leading people from the Lord (temptation and sin) and learning good from evil part of the Plan of Salvation?

We're not talking about spirits making you "think it can predict the future", but actually predicting it.

Who's talking about seeing the future? The issue is opening doors for evil spirits.

Once again the issue isn't a game board but what it historically represents.

Have either of you read the thread or the quotes I picked? We have people claiming that the spirits predicting marriage and even naming the child accurately. Others have been told exactly where they would be sitting a year in advance.

[Gordon]

We're not talking about spirits making you "think it can predict the future", but actually predicting it.

Apples and oranges.

I believe there are things they can "predict", however, this does nothing to change the answer I gave to your question.

[Log]

I swear I had nothing to do with this post. I logged onto the board and there it was. Maybe my compy is possessed!

[cinepro]

Yes. What is wanted is a logical demonstration that your (or Randi's, as the case may be) proposal constitutes such a well-designed test. Illustrate how whatever conclusions you purport to be able to draw follow necessarily from the results of the test, and how all counterexplanations are precluded. Show how the test results can be universally applied to all Oija board experiences perforce.

Personally, I'm skeptical of the notion that such a test will have any easy generalization. After all, suppose I propose a test for some intelligence to perform task X, and said intelligence fails to perform X during the test. Have I precluded the intelligence's ability to perform X?

You're right. The first step to any such test is to get the person making the claim to define the conditions and expectations for the test. My protocol was based on assumptions presented in this thread: specifically, that users of a Ouija Board are influenced by supernatural forces to spell out words or point to words or numbers, and that the supernatural force has knowledge that the users of the Ouija Board don't. The test allows for the supernatural force to know what the card is, but the users don't. It couldn't be simpler.

Obviously, if this theory doesn't accurately represent the claims of those who believe in Ouija boards, then those claims would need to be clarified before proceeding. The important thing is that the test is done blindly, with no possible way for the participants of the test to know what the cards are until after the test is completed.

If you thought my test misrepresented the theory behind the Ouija Board, please point out where I had misunderstood.

It did. There were no hands on the pointer when it "left" our board.

And in what manner would it move?

One problem with your 'involuntary arm movement' theory, is that all the arms of each individual must be in accord.

Usually, my involuntary arm movement will be to one direction, while the others will be to their own...yet, you are saying they all involuntarily (and randomly) move togther to spell words....words that they have not spoken nor agreed to.

Does the ouija board somehow combine each consciousness into one collective?

The small movements are also called the "ideomotor effect", and they are discussed in detail here:

Probably the first major scientist to become concerned about the mischief being created by ideomotor action, although he did not know the concept by this name, was the French chemist Michel Chevreul. Chevreul, who lived for one hundred three years, became interested in the experiments of some of his fellow chemists around the beginning of the nineteenth century. These colleagues were using what was known as "the exploring pendulum" to analyze chemical compounds.

The first recorded use of the exploring pendulum occurred around 371 C.E. A priest would bow over a plate, the edge of which was marked with the letters of the alphabet. This "diviner" or "oracle" would hold a ring, suspended from a thin thread, over the center of the plate. A question would be put to the priest. The movements of the ring would then be observed. When the ring was set in motion, it would swing toward one of the letters. This letter would be recorded; then the same process would be used to select another letter. This would continue until one or more words, which answered the question, would be generated. In this, we see the origins of the modern Ouija board, used to this day by occultists for divining purposes [8].

In the early nineteenth century, certain chemists were advocating this method for analyzing the composition of substances. In 1808, a Professor Gerboin of Strasbourg wrote an entire book on use of the pendulum for chemical analysis [9]. As a budding scientist, Chevreul was intrigued, but he remained skeptical. He was surprised, however, to find that the pendulum worked as advertised when he tried it over a dish of mercury. He carried out more tests, however. To see if a physical force was responsible for the movement of the pendulum, he placed a glass plate between the iron ring and the mercury. To his surprise, the oscillations diminished and then stopped. When he removed the glass plate, the pendulum movements resumed. He next suspected that the pendulum moved because it was difficult to hold his arm steady. When he rested his arm on a support, the movements diminished but did not stop altogether.

Finally, Chevreul did what none of his predecessors had thought of doing. He conducted the equivalent of what we would call a double-blind trial. He blindfolded himself and then he had an assistant interpose or remove the glass plate between the pendulum and the mercury without his knowledge. Under these conditions, nothing happened. Chevreul concluded, "So long as I believed the movement possible, it took place; but after discovering the cause I could not reproduce it." His experiments with the pendulum show how easy it is "to mistake illusions for realities, whenever we are confronted by phenomena in which the human sense-organs are involved under conditions imperfectly analyzed." Chevreul used this principle of expectant attention to account for the phenomena of dowsing, movements of the exploring pendulum, and the then current fad among spiritualists, table-turning.

The ideomotor effect isn't my "theory". It is something you can test in yourself, just as Chevreul did. Heck, just take a pencil and place it on a table and place one or both hands lightly on it and hold your arm perfectly still. See if you can refrain from jiggling the pencil around. Add in a few other people and instill a desire to move a pointer to actually point at something, and you've got yourself a Ouija game. Dangle a weight from a string or grab a y-shaped stick and now you're dowsing.

[Cold Steel]

Critics of ouji boards? So apologists here are not only defending the claims of Mormonism, but also the dark forces imbued into the cardboard and plastic made by Mattel Inc?

You're either not reading the responses or you're intent on setting up your straw man in spite of them. President Heber J. Grant had this to say during an early church conference: "I remember preaching in Los Angeles on one occasion the same as I am doing here now, and after the meeting a woman came to Brother Joseph W. McMurrin and said she had an ouija board-that is what they call it now, it used to be called a planchetteâ??and she thought it was very remarkable, but she would never use it again. He tried to get her to let him have it and burn it. Oh no, she did not want to burn it. She later commenced using it again. She was in Los Angeles on a visit from Arizona at the time I made this talk. She finally landed in the insane asylum in Arizona. (Conference Report, April 1934, First Dayâ??Morning Meeting, p.14)

Harold B. Lee also taught: "Shun Ouija board performances or spiritual s

[Gordon]

The small movements are also called the "ideomotor effect", and they are discussed in detail

You seem to have missed the point I was trying to make (in spite of the fact that it took me forever to get the image correct that I thought clearly illustrated my point).

In the exploring pendulum, you have a priest (singular) performing the experiment, and Chevreul also performed his experiement alone. This doesn't equate to numerous people participating with the ouija board.

I am quite familar with dangling a pen on a string and making it move with your 'mind'...this also has one person holding it.

[cinepro]

You seem to have missed the point I was trying to make (in spite of the fact that it took me forever to get the image correct that I thought clearly illustrated my point).

In the exploring pendulum, you have a priest (singular) performing the experiment, and Chevreul also performed his experiement alone. This doesn't equate to numerous people participating with the ouija board.

I am quite familar with dangling a pen on a string and making it move with your 'mind'...this also has one person holding it.

The principle doesn't change when you have more than one person. If anything, having more than one person would be more problematic for the theory that spirits are doing the influencing. After all, how is an evil spirit supposed to control several different people to get them to do precisely the same thing at the same time. Remember, the spirit must be precise enough to distinguish between individual letters on a board, so there isn't a forgiving margin of error. But somehow an evil spirit can move several different peoples' arms all at once?

But you raise an interesting point. Part of the technique of making a Ouija Board work is everyone believes that the pointer is going to move and point at something. I wonder what would happen if you explained the point of the game as being to keep the pointer as still as possible while imploring the spirits to move it? Or found someway to nullify the ideomotor effect?

[Gordon]

After all, how is an evil spirit supposed to control several different people to get them to do precisely the same thing at the same time.

Wasn't that my point with the "involuntary arm movement"...to which you didn't comment on?

However, the spirit isn't moving the arms, it is moving the pointer.

Part of the technique of making a Ouija Board work is everyone believes that the pointer is going to move and point at something.

Not necessarily, I didn't think it would move.

- Sorry for the late response...I don't get on everyday, and I missed this one.

[Tarski]

the laws that govern positive manifestations of the Spirit also govern negative or evil manifestations-one such law being the need for faith.

AKA, the laws of credulity and fantasy.

[bluebell]

AKA, the laws of credulity and fantasy.

Tarski, i refuse to believe you are what you try so hard to come across as on this board. I bet i would enjoy your company in person-maybe.

Anyway, though this remark does nothing to enhance the conversation and instead only derides a belief system you disagree with, i actually can see where you are coming from.

Faith and other spiritual things, to those who cannot/will not understand them, probably DO look like fantasy. That is why i premised my remarks to be speaking about a specific belief system and not as an answer that would be relevant or valid to the entire board. For those who found no value in my input, i hoped that my previous remarks about the narrowness of the group i was speaking too would be enough of an acknowledgment of their differing belief systems to garner no snarky reply.

Speaking from experience though, i know that sometimes such comments are too hard to resist. A snappy comeback is truly a hard thing to waste.

[The Spectre]

QUOTE

Posted by: Deborah Aug 14 2008, 06:40 AM

(It occurs to me . . . @ Aug 14 2008, 04:52 AM)

This thread has been very revealing into the gullibility of many people.

Of course you would deny actual experiences with these things as being figments of the imagination. I know that spirits on this earth are real, not because of myths and stories but because of experience with them. And I am not a fanciful person. I lived in a house in college where I was not alone in experiencing these things.

As we read in I Cor 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I have found that those who are spiritually sensitive to the good things of the spirit can often (not always) be more sensitive to the evil as well.

END QUOTE

________________________________________________________________________________

__________

How I wish that your assertion were true. Unfortunately, in my case, I seem to only be sensitive to, or rather susceptible to the evil side of things. I have a testimony of the restored gospel, although I would characterize it as more of an "I believe" testimony than being on an "I know" level. I would love to be more sensitive to the "good things of the spirit," but for the life of me, I really seem to struggle getting answers to prayers or any kind of spiritual guidance in my life.

On the other hand (or perhaps the other side), I have had what I would call experiences with the 1/3 (if you get my drift) on numerous occasions, although never via a Ouija board because I am too afraid to mess with themâ?¦and all this superstition from a college grad and holder of three graduate degrees (I only say this to point out that lack of education is not a factor in what I am relating here since some think only the uneducated are prone to belief in this sort of thingâ??yes, I know, now some of you will undoubtedly say, "Wow! All that education and it didn't take").

First case. I was in middle school in my room alone and awake at around midnight. There was nothing deliberate about my being awake at that hour, I just couldn't sleep, and so chose to listen to some music. Because of the hour, yes, the room lights were off, but the lights from the front panel of my stereo illuminated the room to a certain degree. My album of choice was one by a popular hard rock band that many of you are no doubt familiar with. Again, nothing particularly deliberate about the choice of music. The album was fairly new at the time, and I just threw it on.

Well, a certain song on the album comes on and it's subject matter centers around the hot place presided over by Mr. Mephistopheles and etc. (I won't name it because maybe this is your favorite song and band and who am I to ruin it all for you). I had never paid that much attention to the lyrics before and I still don't recall that I was paying that much attention then. They are quite explicit in their lauding of Lucifer though, I must say. While the song played, an engulfing darkness and despair came into the room and seemed to be trying to destroy me. It was a truly awful and even physical experience. As some have said here already, it seemed as though my choice of music, time of day, whatever, had become, or was interpreted as an invitation to the demonic. I quickly revoked the invitation, however, by stopping the music, turning on the lights and trying to rid the room of the presence there. I'm sure many of you will dismiss this as me being a fraidy cat, fear of the dark, overactive imagination, whatever. I admit to having an active imagination, but the kind of things my imagination entertains are usually very different from what happened in my room that night and are easily recognized as simply imaginary musings. What happened that night felt all too real.

Since that time, as I have mentioned on this board once or maybe even twice before, I have experienced, on numerous occasions, what the supremely educated among us call "sleep paralysis" which they explain as a completely physical phenomenon having to do with the brain waking up before the body often accompanied by hallucinations. I'm not convinced of the purely physical explanation. I think that satan and his cohorts do take advantage of invitations, illnesses, or other incidental occurrences to try to gain footholds into our lives. I also think that the supremely educated among us who disbelieve in all things supernatural can come up with "rational" explanations for just about anything that is apparently supernatural because the "supernatural" does not exist.

My experiences with "sleep paralysis" are always accompanied by a visible darkness in human form in the room with me, sometimes just watching, sometimes actively attempting to attack. I say attempting because, given that the attacker is without a body, I do not feel anything physically, but spiritually it feels like I am being shredded. In all these instances, the presence leaves after I spiritually raise my right arm with much effort (remember the body can't move; it's all part of the overall fun of the experience) andâ?¦well you know the rest (or not as the case may be).

Oddly enough, with most things, I am very skeptical. For instance, when a friend of mine ups and moves to a new location without a job and says "We prayed about it and know we are supposed to be in Oklahoma (or wherever). I guess we'll see what the Lord has in store for us here, but we know this is right." I think to myself "OK, good luck with that," and am somewhat (OK a lot) skeptical about God's hand in the whole thing. Likewise, when I get called by one arm of the Stake to do X, after just having been released from a different stake calling by request from a ward leader who specifically wanted me for a ward calling, I have a hard time believing that everyone was getting great spiritual confirmations about all the maneuvering of little old me into these various positions. It's nice to be wanted, but I'm not sure that God wants me whipped around in this fashion.

Anyway, this is my long way of siding with those in this post who have experienced the weirdness of the Ouija even though I have never fooled around with the things myself. To my knowledge, I have never invited the 1/3 to mess with me and yet they seem to be doing so anyway from time to time. I think it would be crazy to voluntarily invite them.

Oh and BTW Consig, your quip about Cinepro being the one poster's father cracked me up. Stay dry my fellow NW WA brother!

[SilverKnight]

What a thoroughly enjoyable thread!

Please, if any of you have evil spirit, ghost or spooky stories - please share!

Alas, I am a bit of skeptic and never have had such experiences.

Just last week I was underneath the catacombs in Edinburgh Scotland, supposedly one of the most haunted places in Europe. My wife and many members of the "Ghost Tour" group were quite frightened. One teen boy and one lady were both "touched" by "something" during the tour. Other party members were very agitated and felt cold.

I was hoping to get more spooked - even lingering by myself in one of the more haunted rooms hoping for something - but got nothing.

Oh well, maybe I need to give the Ouija Board a try.

[maxrep12]

Ouija Boards are silly. They work on the same principle as dowsing rods, namely that we can't keep our hands and arms perfectly still, even when we think they are. These "micromovements" move the object, and since we are not consciously aware that our arms are moving, we attribute the movement to an outside force. These micromovements may also be affected by the participants' knowledge of the question and the likely acceptable answer needed from the board.

You can test this theory. Place the board on the table with the pointer in place, but don't touch it. Then, invoke the proper (or improper) spirits, and plead with them to give you knowledge through the pointer, but still don't touch it. Wait for the spirit to move the pointer. It's not going to move.

As another test, you can formulate a list of 100 or more Yes/No questions for which you don't know the answer (but can find out). Or, have someone make the list, but keep it secret from the people directing the board. Then have the person say "Question 1" (but not actually read the question) and have the users direct to the Yes or No. Record the answer, then do "Question 2". Repeat for all the questions. Ensure that the human participants don't know what the actual questions are. When finished, tally the number of correct and incorrect Yes/No answers. If the game really is being directed by the human participants alone, you would expect about a 50% accuracy from this test. If you get significantly higher in a properly controlled test, then it may be good evidence that an outside (knowledgeable) force is involving itself in the answering process. Be sure to ask enough questions to get a good statistical probability.

There are many other good tests that can be conducted, each of them just as likely to show you that there are no "spirits" or otherwise supernatural forces at play. If you develop a good test and find the results suggest otherwise, there may be a lot of money in it for you.

When you say it like that, there's just no fun it anymore. At the threads start, I was planning on Taking a ouija board atop my roof tonight at the witching hour(is that 2am or 3am?) and inviting spirits from the unseen word to inhabit my physical tabernacle. Just can't be bothered to fetch the ladder now....

This could be an item for mythbusters, if they have already exhausted their interesting myths.

[Mighty Curelom]

Gordon said:

However, the spirit isn't moving the arms, it is moving the pointer.

If that's the case, why put your hands on the pointer at all? You should be able to just sit down and watch that pointer zip around the board on its own.

Maxrep said:

This could be an item for mythbusters, if they have already exhausted their interesting myths.

They don't touch religious or supernatural claims. It's too bad, really, since those are the most interesting and pervasive myths out there.

I'm constantly amazed by the number of seemingly intelligent and educated people who still believe in things like ouija boards or dowsing rods.