Man! That Was One ~great~ Steak!

[Russ]

I have recieved no reply from Russ on this issue, Also just because God maybe "unhappy" that does not equal "displeased", displeased does not equal sin. YOu have no case here Russ. You also admited that you knew it was not given as a commandment. If something is not a commandment how then can it be called a sin? This is basic stuff here, that your toying with. Please be more serious about it next time.

Say WHAT?!

Anything displeasing to God is sin. If God ain't happy, then it's sin. God's wrath, displeasure, sadness, melancholy is ALWAYS a result of our sin. That's biblical.

The fact that the WoW wasn't originally a commandment has no bearing on this discussion because we know that the WoW IS now a commandment and you aren't obeying it. Did you have any B-B-Qs this summer? Was it during a period of famine?

This is yet another case of LDS saying that the text provided means something else besides what it clearly states.

[Russ]

Hmmm. Russ, where is the word displeased in that text? I think the Lord knows how to say he is displeased. I do not know why we try to talk to people who prefer eisegesis over exegesis. You focus on a single line of text without consulting or concerning yourself about the greater syntax and context. I guess all that habitual eisegesis your movement uses to formulate some of your teachings has become a rather bad habit you will have to break. Trouble is, I am not sure you want to do so.

Simple.

According to Mormon scripture, it is "pleasing" to the LORD that meat not be consummed unless in times of famine or cold.

Doesn't logic inform us that God (according to Mormon scripture) is displeased if meat is consummed outside such times?

[Russ]

Just curious Russ, which passage(s) of the Bible are you using to support your belief that the eating of meat is at all times pleasing to God? Perhaps if you were to direct us to the passages you are referring to, the (alleged) contradiction between the Bible and the D&C on this matter would be a bit more apparent.

Amulek, I cannot keep up with 10 or so LDS respondents in this thread. Time doesn't allow it.

I did a study on this LDS topic about two years ago or so. I went through the O.T. using a concordance searching for the word "meat." Blue Letter Bible.org provides a good concordance search tool. Check it out.

What I found out is that God isn't displeased by meat consumption and in fact gave it to us for food.

I also found out that not every instance of the word meat pertains to meat products. Sometimes the word is used to describe as food in general.

I also found out that the Wow contradicts the Bible on this issue. I find no such biblical restrictions as contained in the D&C. In fact, I find just the opposite.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Say WHAT?!

Anything displeasing to God is sin. If God ain't happy, then it's sin. God's wrath, displeasure, sadness, melancholy is ALWAYS a result of our sin. That's biblical.

The fact that the WoW wasn't originally a commandment has no bearing on this discussion because we know that the WoW IS now a commandment and you aren't obeying it. Did you have any B-B-Qs this summer? Was it during a period of famine?

This is yet another case of LDS saying that the text provided means something else besides what it clearly states.

Please Russ, Were in the Bible is the word displeased equated to sin. I need a scripture Book and Verse out of the Bible. I cant be any clearer here. You just expect us to leave a faith for your word and doctrine. You cant show from the Bible ( witch is your source for all truth and truth alone) that what you claim is in it. And yes, if something is not a commandment, how can it be called a sin. Russ this is the issue. What is a sin. Sin = breaking Gods commandements. You seem to have forgotten this basic and fundemental prinicple. If I marry a bad woman that is greedy and selfish is that a sin? God might be unhappy with my choice but that does not mean that I sinned. How could it. Im not the one that has the problem with selfishness and greediness. Now I'm not claiming I married such a woman. It wouldnt even make sence for some one to marry a woman like this. But the point remains. Some choice can displease God, but that doesnt mean that it is a sin.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I also found out that the Wow contradicts the Bible on this issue. I find no such biblical restrictions as contained in the D&C. In fact, I find just the opposite.

Spare us Russ. ( get it spare us. like in a spare rib, HA!) Why couldnt the people under the law of Moses not eat certain types of meat (pork). Please answer the question. You calimed that God does not put a limitation on what man can eat. THis is a blatent falsehood. Also do you really want to keep you argument as it stand witch is, "I find no such biblical restrictions as contained in the D&C. In fact, I find just the opposite."

I would hate for you to thing it is ok for man to take or drink strong drink. Remember the words of Isaiah.

Also consider these verses. Deut 14:3-8

3

[MormonMason]

Simple.

According to Mormon scripture, it is "pleasing" to the LORD that meat not be consummed unless in times of famine or cold.

Doesn't logic inform us that God (according to Mormon scripture) is displeased if meat is consummed outside such times?

Talk about straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel!

The "logic" of man does no such thing. There is no word displeased in that passage and there is no word foribiddeth in any of its forms there either. It is not a real contradiction if those words aren't present and if the context reveals the true meaning. Try exegesis sometime. It is infinitely more rewarding and more fun than eisegesis any day of the week. It does take time, though. I guess you do not have enough time for careful study of scripture.

BTW, I may have missed it but I did not see your answer to my question regarding Paul's idea that if it offends his brother he would never eat meat again and that others should adopt that position. Is an answer forthcoming? If you have already done so, please point me to your answer.

[MorningStar]

Russ, just say it ten more times and maybe someone will agree with you.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Talk about straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel!

The "logic" of man does no such thing. There is no word displeased in that passage and there is no word foribiddeth in any of its forms there either. It is not a real contradiction if those words aren't present and if the context reveals the true meaning. Try exegesis sometime. It is infinitely more rewarding and fun and eisegesis any day of the week. It does take time, though. I guess you do not have enough time for careful study of scripture.

BTW, I may have missed it but I did not see your answer to my question regarding Paul's idea that if it offends his brother he would never eat meat again and that others should adopt that position. Is an answer forthcoming? If you have already done so, please point me to your answer.

Sad, of me, I didnt realize, I feel like a fool, Im sitting here debating with Russ over the word displeased, It didnt occur ot me that it wasnt even in the text. Some times I need to take a breather and really look at the source. Sorry Russ, You cannot add to or take away. Displeased is not in the verse, Your point is Moot!!

[MorningStar]

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yeah huh!"

"Nuh uh!"

"Yeah huh infinity!"

"Nuh uh infinity!"

Mola, I'm off to buy some ribs! And some napkins. Musn't forget the napkins ...

[Geaux LSU]

You silly LDS are working under the premise that Russ has actually read and studied ANY of the LDS doctrine (or Bible for that matter) in full. That is a false premise. Russ has NEVER read the Book of Mormon, D&C, Pearl of Great Price. Russ is riding the coattails of another anti - one he packed up and literally followed to another state.

Russ is not capable of responding because Russ is not educated to any degree on any topic LDS- other than second and third hand information he has obtained from other anti sources. His knowledge of anything LDS (or "Christian" for that matter) is surface level, shallow and convoluted at best and he likes it that way. It works for him and helps keep him from delving too deeply into his own immature faith.

Now, be a doll and go to his site and give him a pay pal donation for all of his hard work.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does."

"No it doesn't."

"Yeah huh!"

"Nuh uh!"

"Yeah huh infinity!"

"Nuh uh infinity!"

Mola, I'm off to buy some ribs! And some napkins. Musn't forget the napkins ...

Nuh uh x infinity x infinity.

Yeah uh x infinity x infinity Ha!!

Now, be a doll and go to his site and give him a pay pal donation for all of his hard work.

Does he accept ribs or steak? Lol!

[MorningStar]

Nuh uh x infinity x infinity.

Yeah uh x infinity x infinity Ha!!

Does he accept ribs or steak? Lol!

He can't have the ribs. They're in my crockpot smothered in BBQ sauce. There was a 15 pound bag of Yukon gold potatoes for $2.99 so I bought those too. They're my new favorite potato. I'm going to roast some garlic today and mash it up with them. Yummy yum yum. I think I'll invite a friend over.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

He can't have the ribs. They're in my crockpot smothered in BBQ sauce. There was a 15 pound bag of Yukon gold potatoes for $2.99 so I bought those too. They're my new favorite potato. I'm going to roast some garlic today and mash it up with them. Yummy yum yum. I think I'll invite a friend over.

Oh oh, Pick me Pick me. I want to come. To bad I dont live near you. Yukon gold eh. I think I have had them onced or twiced before.Pretty tasty I must say.

[MorningStar]

Oh oh, Pick me Pick me. I want to come. To bad I dont live near you. Yukon gold eh. I think I have had them onced or twiced before.Pretty tasty I must say.

I had them once at a restaurant and I wondered where they had been all my life. Maybe it was the way they were cooked, but those were the most delicious potatoes I have ever had.

[urroner]

He can't have the ribs. They're in my crockpot smothered in BBQ sauce. There was a 15 pound bag of Yukon gold potatoes for $2.99 so I bought those too. They're my new favorite potato. I'm going to roast some garlic today and mash it up with them. Yummy yum yum. I think I'll invite a friend over.

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

Recipe!!!!!

[Russ]

Please Russ, Were in the Bible is the word displeased equated to sin. I need a scripture Book and Verse out of the Bible. I cant be any clearer here. You just expect us to leave a faith for your word and doctrine. You cant show from the Bible ( witch is your source for all truth and truth alone) that what you claim is in it. And yes, if something is not a commandment, how can it be called a sin. Russ this is the issue. What is a sin. Sin = breaking Gods commandements. You seem to have forgotten this basic and fundemental prinicple. If I marry a bad woman that is greedy and selfish is that a sin? God might be unhappy with my choice but that does not mean that I sinned. How could it. Im not the one that has the problem with selfishness and greediness. Now I'm not claiming I married such a woman. It wouldnt even make sence for some one to marry a woman like this. But the point remains. Some choice can displease God, but that doesnt mean that it is a sin.

Whoa, hold on there a second, bubbaloo. The WoW is a commandment and the WoW states that meat in summer isn't okay.

If breaking the WoW is a sin, then what the heck is going on here?

[Russ]

Spare us Russ. ( get it spare us. like in a spare rib, HA!) Why couldnt the people under the law of Moses not eat certain types of meat (pork). Please answer the question.

Sorry. Ain't gonna follow rabbit trails. We're talking about the uniquely LDS scripture called the Word of Wisdom.

You calimed that God does not put a limitation on what man can eat. THis is a blatent falsehood. Also do you really want to keep you argument as it stand witch is, "I find no such biblical restrictions as contained in the D&C. In fact, I find just the opposite."

Uh, no. I didn't state that God doesn't place dietary restrictions. What I said was that the WoW states men shouldn't eat meat unless it's a time of famine or of cold. That's anti-bibical as meat is for food. That's biblical.

I would hate for you to thing it is ok for man to take or drink strong drink. Remember the words of Isaiah.

Also consider these verses. Deut 14:3-8

3

[ann]

Sorry. Ain't gonna follow rabbit trails. We're talking about the uniquely LDS scripture called the Word of Wisdom.

that isn't exactly accurate, you have said that the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible, which isn't 'uniquely LDS' is it?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Whoa, hold on there a second, bubbaloo. The WoW is a commandment and the WoW states that meat in summer isn't okay.

If breaking the WoW is a sin, then what the heck is going on here?

There is the whole premise isnt it. Breaking the WoW in its original form was not a commandment and hence not a sin. Later parts of it were commanded and is now a sin to break parts of it. Not eating too much of the red meat is just that, wisdom. If I eat too much red meat it is not wise to do so. Modern medicine has confirmed this. Do you agree. Eating to much red meat, or any other meat, though is not a sin becuase it has not been commanded. So, If breaking the WoW is a sin, is your whole premise I will be the first to correct it. I think you see the point now. Im sorry I had to be so stern but you were unwilling to see it.

[Sargon]

8 pages have gone by and Russ still hasn't demonstrated WHY the word of wisdom is "unbiblical". All we have is his solemn word that he has done the research and the implication is that we should just trust him on this one.

I don't trust you.

Sargon

[John Williams]

that isn't exactly accurate, you have said that the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible, which isn't 'uniquely LDS' is it?

Should a member of the LDS church even care if modern revelation "contradicts" the Bible? With an open canon, shouldn't we expect revelation suited to our time? And might not such revelation supersede earlier revelation?

Protestant prooftexting doesn't exactly work with Mormonism very well.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Sorry. Ain't gonna follow rabbit trails. We're talking about the uniquely LDS scripture called the Word of Wisdom.

Uh, no. I didn't state that God doesn't place dietary restrictions. What I said was that the WoW states men shouldn't eat meat unless it's a time of famine or of cold. That's anti-bibical as meat is for food. That's biblical.

Good question(s).

Separate topic, however.

Argh. Lets not get into sola scriptora Were in does the Bible state to be complete?

[Sargon]

Russ, did you ever address the fact that the original WoW didn't include the comma where it presently is, which location changes the meaning of the passage drastically?

[Sargon]

Should a member of the LDS church even care if modern revelation "contradicts" the Bible? With an open canon, shouldn't we expect revelation suited to our time? And might not such revelation supersede earlier revelation?

Protestant prooftexting doesn't exactly work with Mormonism very well.

That's right John, I was thinking along those same lines. The bible itself is so full of contradictions, that Russ would find himself without a religion if he followed his own advice.

Sargon

[Russ]

that isn't exactly accurate, you have said that the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible, which isn't 'uniquely LDS' is it?

Yes, the BoM does indeed contradict the Bible. And that's a whole 'nuther story.

What I said in this thread is that the D&C contradicts the Bible insofar that meat is only for cold or famine.

Such isn't biblical. And therein lies the contradiction.

8 pages have gone by and Russ still hasn't demonstrated WHY the word of wisdom is "unbiblical". All we have is his solemn word that he has done the research and the implication is that we should just trust him on this one.

I don't trust you.

Sargon

Nonsense, Sargon. I suggested to one person in this thread that I did a study on this about two years ago (employing a concordance) and I gave a link to Blue Letter Bible.org so that the interested reader can research it for themselves.

Russ, did you ever address the fact that the original WoW didn't include the comma where it presently is, which location changes the meaning of the passage drastically?

I read that post, yeah.

I just shook my head wondering why no LDS will fess up to the WoW stating meat is only for winter and/or famine.

Round n' round.