Is There A Way To Block Mormon Relatives From Baptizing Me When I Croak?

[MorningStar]

And that's what you just don't want to get: Your wishes are NOT being ignored. Nothing they do on you is in any way binding without your consent. You still retain your ability to choose damnation or salvation (until Heavenly Father decides to take salvation off the table).

That's right. If Expositor says no, then the person being baptized on his/her behalf is just getting dunked.

[AddamS]

Get your relatives to commit by solomn covenant never to proxy baptise you, then get every church member to do the same.

In other words: probably not.

End of question.

No offense, but your wishes seem to be kind of lame. Some people wish world hunger would end, or that they will find their true love, or that they will live a nice happy and long life. You apparently find it important to stop a religious body of people- who you believe are incorrect, and practicing a bunch of hocus pocus- from trying to help you, even if, to your beliefs, it won't do anything anyway.

After all that has been said on this thread, I'm going to have to say you might have to just get over it.

P.S.

A simply ingenious idea, Francom.

Of course it is the end of that question. That's what I said. if it makes you feel better to have the last word on that subject keep it, brother.

My wishes are "lame"? Really? Are you going to say that you spend each minute of each day wishing for world peace and a cure for cancer? have you ever wanted a big juicy burger? Have you ever wished for anything for yourself at all? I can't believe a person would say that religious freedoms need to be secured (as I believe) but turn around and say that my right not to be involved in it isn't important. Oh wait, I forgot where I was for a minute...

[LifeOnaPlate]

I'm not concerned about the church being true. I kind of hope it is! If it is I won't have to spend eternity with people I don't generally care for on either side of the spectrum!

I'm more concerned with policy that tells people that their actions on earth can affect others after they have passed away. Seems (to me) like it is unhealthy to believe that a person has the "power" to reach into eternity and affect the "afterlife".

death is nothing more than the separation of the spirit from the mortal body. You're still you, I'm still me, and guess what? We technically already are in eternity.

[AddamS]

And that's what you just don't want to get: Your wishes are NOT being ignored. Nothing they do on you is in any way binding without your consent. You still retain your ability to choose damnation or salvation (until Heavenly Father decides to take salvation off the table).

I get it, you guys believe that no matter what happens on Earth after I push daisies, I will still be able to say "No" I understand.

I get that you believe that it may give me an option I didn't have before unless God thinks I'm unworthy of it.

But If God gives the determining vote if I get the chance, why even do it?

[selek]

I can't believe a person would say that religious freedoms need to be secured (as I believe) but turn around and say that my right not to be involved in it isn't important. Oh wait, I forgot where I was for a minute...

The rather silly ad hominem aside, you've had it explained to your repeatedly that you aren't involved unless you choose to be.

Professor Peterson is lurking here abouts, so maybe he can say it to you in Arabic this time. But short of repeating it to you in every known language under the sun, we can't be any plainer.

Your fears are unfounded. Nothing in the Mormon arsenal of ordinances will or can be done on your behalf without your consent.

[LifeOnaPlate]

My wishes are "lame"? Really?

I really think pushing the issue in this manner, yes, is lame. Am I allowed?

Are you going to say that you spend each minute of each day wishing for world peace and a cure for cancer? have you ever wanted a big juicy burger? Have you ever wished for anything for yourself at all?

Of course not. I was exercising a little hyperbole. Still, I don't visit pro-hamburger or anti-hamburger websites and ask a load of questions, frankly, because it isn't important. If you don't believe in proxy baptism, you'll be dead. It doesn't matter in the least. It's like getting upset if a 5-year-old calls you a doodie head. Who cares? It's lame to get bent out of shape about it.

I can't believe a person would say that religious freedoms need to be secured (as I believe) but turn around and say that my right not to be involved in it isn't important. Oh wait, I forgot where I was for a minute...

This is the last time I'll say it:

You are in no way, shape, or form obligated to believe in proxy baptism, accept a proxy baptism, or in any way feel the Church is forcing a proxy baptism on you.

[selek]

But If God gives the determining vote if I get the chance, why even do it?

1) Because we are commanded to, and 2) because it is up to God to determine whether or not you had a full and fair chance to understand and accept the Gospel.

Unless he tells us otherwise, we do everything that is possible to cover all the bases. We do our best to keep the commandments and provide every opportunity. The rest is between you and him.

[LifeOnaPlate]

But If God gives the determining vote if I get the chance, why even do it?

Because God is no respecter of persons: all must be saved upon the same principles.

[Connolly]

I get it, you guys believe that no matter what happens on Earth after I push daisies, I will still be able to say "No" I understand.

I get that you believe that it may give me an option I didn't have before unless God thinks I'm unworthy of it.

But If God gives the determining vote if I get the chance, why even do it?

Put it this way:

God sent Christ to atone for your sins. He did that. But you can say "I want to keep my sins, I don't want his atonement." You got your choice. But Christ still did it anyways.

Baptism is an ordinace that symbolizes the death and resurrection of Christ. So whether you accept it or not, it still will be done. But you got your choice.

[AddamS]

1) Because we are commanded to, and 2) because it is up to God to determine whether or not you had a full and fair chance to understand and accept the Gospel.

Unless he tells us otherwise, we do everything that is possible to cover all the bases. We do our best to keep the commandments and provide every opportunity. The rest is between you and him.

Finally, a concise answer.

[MorningStar]

I get it, you guys believe that no matter what happens on Earth after I push daisies, I will still be able to say "No" I understand.

I get that you believe that it may give me an option I didn't have before unless God thinks I'm unworthy of it.

But If God gives the determining vote if I get the chance, why even do it?

If the church is true, God will be thrilled if you accept. If it's not true, then this is a non-issue. There are more important things to worry about. Really. For instance, will your family be taken care of after you die?

[William Schryver]

On one visit to my wife's family in St. George a few years ago I got into a conversation with her Uncle about geneology. At the time I just thought it was an interesting discussion but thought it was odd that he was writing all of the information down. I assumed it was for personal family record (and it may have been). If he did take the information to submit it to the church, I understand he meant no harm by it. But would rather not it happen just the same.

I have since found that sometimes this information is submitted for baptism of the dead. Is there any way to stop this from happening? I know a lot of Jewish people made an issue about it at one point in time so I assume there has to be some sort of process.

No offense, I just would rather make my own choices about my soul when I bite the dust (assuming the church is still around by then). I'm also concerend about those that have passed before now that were mentioned.

You are suffering from a gross misconception. No one will ever baptize you after you "croak."

Someone might baptize someone else "for and in behalf" of you. But you will remain completely dry and interred during the entire process.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Finally, a concise answer.

*places hot iron against his own face*

[gatorboy]

And another thing... how to get myself removed from the direct mail marketing and telemarketing lists... This is something that bothers me here - before I die!!!

[Zakuska]

I get it, you guys believe that no matter what happens on Earth after I push daisies, I will still be able to say "No" I understand.

I get that you believe that it may give me an option I didn't have before unless God thinks I'm unworthy of it.

But If God gives the determining vote if I get the chance, why even do it?

Because unless a "man is born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven." John 3:5

You may want to ask yourself who this guy is speaking of...

Who are all these Saviors on Mount Zion?

Obad. 1: 17, 21

17

[AddamS]

I really think pushing the issue in this manner, yes, is lame. Am I allowed?

You can (obviously) think whatever you want.

Of course not. I was exercising a little hyperbole. Still, I don't visit pro-hamburger or anti-hamburger websites and ask a load of questions, frankly, because it isn't important. If you don't believe in proxy baptism, you'll be dead. It doesn't matter in the least. It's like getting upset if a 5-year-old calls you a doodie head. Who cares? It's lame to get bent out of shape about it.

Isn't this the place to bring questions like this? Maybe I don't understand apologetics...

[MorningStar]

And another thing... how to get myself removed from the direct mail marketing and telemarketing lists... This is something that bothers me here - before I die!!!

The do not call registry is Heaven sent!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

And another thing... how to get myself removed from the direct mail marketing and telemarketing lists... This is something that bothers me here - before I die!!!

Since this is something that can involve the law, try leagal means to do it. Im also sure that a simple take my name and number off of your calling list will work to.

[AddamS]

*places hot iron against his own face*

I understand your frustration, but it really is the first time someone brought up that it is in your doctrine to baptise the dead, and not a choice made by well-meaning family members.

If you believe that this is something that must be done to account for your own salvation, I can understand that. At least you are gtting something out of it.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Isn't this the place to bring questions like this? Maybe I don't understand apologetics...

Yeah, the initial question, after being answered numerous times, was fine. Then it was asked and answered, asked and answered,

asked and answered,

asked and answered,

etc.

[AddamS]

I am sorry that not all questions have simple answers.

And I am sorry that follow-up questions sometimes occur in discovery.

[LifeOnaPlate]

If you believe that this is something that must be done to account for your own salvation, I can understand that. At least you are gtting something out of it.

This is a good point; it should always be mentioned that we without our dead cannot be saved.

D&C 128:15

And now, my dearly beloved brethren and sisters, let me assure you that these are principles in relation to the dead and the living that cannot be lightly passed over, as pertaining to our salvation. For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the fathers-that they without us cannot be made perfect-neither can we without our dead be made perfect. [see Hebrews 11:40]

No worries, now that you got it.

[Pahoran]

But what if it does? Suppose you croak and find out that the big G upstairs looks in your records and sees you are in a list that doesn't make it.

I don't suppose LDS members would like The Church if Satan baptising their members without a say in the matter for the same reason.

Actually we wouldn't give a flying rat's posterior. Apart from being a bit annoyed at an obvious parody and mockery of our sacred ordinances, which is a separate issue. You see, we know that anything done by The Church of Satan is ultimately ineffectual in eternity.

However, I take it that you regard our ordinances as having an actual eternal impact?

Because that would give some logical basis for your concern.

If so, then please know that there is no room for those ordinances to have any effect except on the grounds of LDS doctrine.

Which includes your postmortem freedom of choice.

But if The Church of Jesus Christ does not have the priesthood authority it claims, then all that will happen is that some time after you assume ground temperature, someone will submit a list of names that includes yours; and while the worms are peacefully munching on your innards, someone will perform a harmless ritual and mention your name at the time.

Either way, there's no harm to you.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Calm]

No offense, I just would rather make my own choices about my soul when I bite the dust (assuming the church is still around by then). I'm also concerend about those that have passed before now that were mentioned.

Haven't read the rest so pardon any repetition.

The baptism doesn't force you or your soul into any situation you would not choose to be in. It would be done even if you refused to be baptized when you were alive because there is an assumption that people change their minds at times when given new information and that many after encountering what we believe is the truth of the postmortal experience, will realize and accept the gospel...which for us is what the LDS faith teaches. LDS believe that in essence it is creating more choice for the individual, not taking any away or imposing/forcing another.

Now if anyone rejects the baptism postmortality---even those who might have accepted it in this lifetime--the baptism is not valid, think of the work as a contract waiting for you to sign on the bottomline; no signature, no contract. You are the only one making any eternal choices about your soul. All else is empty paperwork and action as far as your personal state goes without your approval giving it validity.

If this still concerns you after this and the other explanations that have been given you, you have the option of contacting this Uncle or anyone else in the family and ask them to make a note on the family group sheets that you have requested no ordinances to be done for you. Since this may be the source of information for anyone wanting to do the work, they would at least be aware of your current wishes. If it really, really bothers you for some reason (which would be strange to me considering anyone would be doing the work believing they were making your postmortal life into a more positive and fulfilling experience for you...which is kind of nice and thoughtful in my view), you could even have added to the note that no one is to do the work until you personally come back to request it.

[MorningStar]

Actually we wouldn't give a flying rat's posterior. Apart from being a bit annoyed at an obvious parody and mockery of our sacred ordinances, which is a separate issue. You see, we know that anything done by The Church of Satan is ultimately ineffectual in eternity.

However, I take it that you regard our ordinances as having an actual eternal impact?

Because that would give some logical basis for your concern.

If so, then please know that there is no room for those ordinances to have any effect except on the grounds of LDS doctrine.

Which includes your postmortem freedom of choice.

But if The Church of Jesus Christ does not have the priesthood authority it claims, then all that will happen is that some time after you assume ground temperature, someone will submit a list of names that includes yours; and while the worms are peacefully munching on your innards, someone will perform a harmless ritual and mention your name at the time.

Either way, there's no harm to you.

Regards,

Pahoran

Pahoran,

I'm a little surprised at you. The worms will be munching on his outards too.