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Is There A Way To Block Mormon Relatives From Baptizing Me When I Croak?


AddamS

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On one visit to my wife's family in St. George a few years ago I got into a conversation with her Uncle about geneology. At the time I just thought it was an interesting discussion but thought it was odd that he was writing all of the information down. I assumed it was for personal family record (and it may have been). If he did take the information to submit it to the church, I understand he meant no harm by it. But would rather not it happen just the same.

I have since found that sometimes this information is submitted for baptism of the dead. Is there any way to stop this from happening? I know a lot of Jewish people made an issue about it at one point in time so I assume there has to be some sort of process.

No offense, I just would rather make my own choices about my soul when I bite the dust (assuming the church is still around by then). I'm also concerend about those that have passed before now that were mentioned.

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I just would rather make my own choices about my soul when I bite the dust

Is there anybody in the Church who believes that he or she can take away your postmortem right to choose?

I can't think of any really good ways of blocking relatives from performing vicarious ordinances on your behalf. You could kill them all, I suppose. But that seems somehow inappropriate. Or you could persuade the government to prohibit the free exercise of religion. But that might require an extra-constitutional coup of some sort . . .

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No offense, I just would rather make my own choices about my soul when I bite the dust (assuming the church is still around by then). I'm also concerend about those that have passed before now that were mentioned.

Rest assured that having a Mormon get baptized on your behalf does nothing for you soul that you don't want it to. As to whether or not you can block it? Obviously it has happened with the Jews from the Holocaust, but I doubt there is a list or anything you can get your name on.

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I just would rather make my own choices about my soul when I bite the dust (assuming the church is still around by then). I'm also concerend about those that have passed before now that were mentioned.

Then express your will to your family. But who knows what their great-great-grandchildren will do.

As far as making your own choice is concrened, you will always have that ability. You are free to accept or reject it, we belive that if you reject it then for all intensive purposes, you were never baptized.

Edit:

The issue with the Jewish Holocaust victims dealt with church members using lists of the victims to perform baptisms for the dead. The church discourages this practice. However, if there are descendents of any of those victims or their families who join the church and wish to do proxy work for their ancestors then there is no prohibition on them doing so.

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On one visit to my wife's family in St. George a few years ago I got into a conversation with her Uncle about geneology. At the time I just thought it was an interesting discussion but thought it was odd that he was writing all of the information down. I assumed it was for personal family record (and it may have been). If he did take the information to submit it to the church, I understand he meant no harm by it. But would rather not it happen just the same.

I have since found that sometimes this information is submitted for baptism of the dead. Is there any way to stop this from happening? I know a lot of Jewish people made an issue about it at one point in time so I assume there has to be some sort of process.

No offense, I just would rather make my own choices about my soul when I bite the dust (assuming the church is still around by then). I'm also concerend about those that have passed before now that were mentioned.

I dont think there is any thing you can do as far as relatives doing your work for you. A far as the doctrin is concerned, 2 ways to look at it. If the chruch is true then you will have a choice not to accept the work. If it is false it wont matter one way or another.

I guess you could always leave a will of some sort stating that you dont want your relatives to do work for you. Legally I dont know how you wouldnt get it work.

This is also a case of not being able to force some not to do your work.

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I could baptize you a hundred times by proxy and it wouldn't mean a whit if you said "I don't accept it." I might as well baptize a bag of sand.

Quick question: On the off chance that, should you die, and you discover the LDS Church really is God's Church, and that baptism in it is essential, will you still hope no one is baptised in your behalf?

No offense intended, but by that time it might be too late, anyway, depending on how much you know/reject.

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On one visit to my wife's family in St. George a few years ago I got into a conversation with her Uncle about geneology. At the time I just thought it was an interesting discussion but thought it was odd that he was writing all of the information down. I assumed it was for personal family record (and it may have been). If he did take the information to submit it to the church, I understand he meant no harm by it. But would rather not it happen just the same.

I have since found that sometimes this information is submitted for baptism of the dead. Is there any way to stop this from happening? I know a lot of Jewish people made an issue about it at one point in time so I assume there has to be some sort of process.

No offense, I just would rather make my own choices about my soul when I bite the dust (assuming the church is still around by then). I'm also concerend about those that have passed before now that were mentioned.

Well, there are a few points of view on your question.

1) If you don't believe in it -- what's the harm? It will mean nothing to you to know that it has happened. You'll just shrug your shoulders and continue-on with your afterlife.

2) If for some reason you change your mind about our beliefs -- you'll be glad someone has done the work for you.

3) Doing the proxy work for you here in mortality does nothing for you unless you accept it on the other side.

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I could baptize you a hundred times by proxy and it wouldn't mean a whit if you said "I don't accept it." I might as well baptize a bag of sand.

So, when I get hurled into eternity, you guys believe that I will still have a choice in the matter even with the baptism? Meaning, after I die, do you believ ein the afterlife I will be able to reject the teachings, even if they are somehow correct and I have been baptised posthumously?

I could baptize you a hundred times by proxy and it wouldn't mean a whit if you said "I don't accept it." I might as well baptize a bag of sand.

Quick question: On the off chance that, should you die, and you discover the LDS Church really is God's Church, and that baptism in it is essential, will you still hope no one is baptised in your behalf?

No offense intended, but by that time it might be too late, anyway, depending on how much you know/reject.

In my humble opinion, that's a pretty off-chance my friend.

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If you don't believe in the LDS church, it really doesn't matter what your relatives do. If proxy baptisms is a concern for you now, you may as well be concerned that some crazy munchkins might someday do proxy work on your behalf that makes you an official member of the Council of Mother Goose.

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So, when I get hurled into eternity, you guys believe that I will still have a choice in the matter even with the baptism? Meaning, after I die, do you believ ein the afterlife I will be able to reject the teachings, even if they are somehow correct and I have been baptised posthumously?

Yup. That's the doctrine.

You won't be able to accept baptism unless it's been offered to you, but you can decline it even if it has.

Vicarious baptism for the dead is all about offering the dead a meaningful choice.

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So, when I get hurled into eternity, you guys believe that I will still have a choice in the matter even with the baptism? Meaning, after I die, do you believ ein the afterlife I will be able to reject the teachings, even if they are somehow correct and I have been baptised posthumously?

In my humble opinion, that's a pretty off-chance my friend.

You can reject it at ANY TIME.

Even after receiving your Exaltation. You can still deny it and walk away from it.

You ALWAYS have a choice.

Even God could choose NOT to be God -- if He wanted to. Right now -- He could throw it all away.

We always have a choice. What we cannot choose are the consequences of that choice.

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So, when I get hurled into eternity, you guys believe that I will still have a choice in the matter even with the baptism?

Yes. You will always retain the right to reject the ordinance. Depending upon God's assessment of the witnesses you have received may not have the opportunity to accept it, however.

Meaning, after I die, do you believe in the afterlife I will be able to reject the teachings, even if they are somehow correct and I have been baptised posthumously?

Yep.

In my humble opinion, that's a pretty off-chance my friend.

Then you have nothing to worry about.

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If you don't believe in the LDS church, it really doesn't matter what your relatives do. If proxy baptisms is a concern for you now, you may as well be concerned that some crazy munchkins might someday do proxy work on your behalf that makes you an official member of the Council of Mother Goose.

But what if it does? Suppose you croak and find out that the big G upstairs looks in your records and sees you are in a list that doesn't make it.

I don't suppose LDS members would like The Church if Satan baptising their members without a say in the matter for the same reason.

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So, when I get hurled into eternity, you guys believe that I will still have a choice in the matter even with the baptism? Meaning, after I die, do you believ ein the afterlife I will be able to reject the teachings, even if they are somehow correct and I have been baptised posthumously?

In my humble opinion, that's a pretty off-chance my friend.

You always have a choice. We belive that every soul who has ever lived on this earth will have a chance to accept or reject Jesus Christ and the ordnances of His Gospel. Some get the chance in mortality. Some never get the chance on Earth, so they get a chance in the afterlife. Since we can't judge who got a chance and who didn't, we perform the ordinance which must be done on Earth. The person however still has a choice and God judges if they rejected it in mortality or in the afterlife.

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Yes. You will always retain the right to reject the ordinance. Depending upon God's assessment of the witnesses you have received may not have the opportunity to accept it, however.

Yep.

Then you have nothing to worry about.

Sounds great, thanks for the info.

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But what if it does? Suppose you croak and find out that the big G upstairs looks in your records and sees you are in a list that doesn't make it.

I don't suppose LDS members would like The Church if Satan baptising their members without a say in the matter for the same reason.

If it was done without your consent, then you cannot be damned for it, anymore than you can be saved for it without your consent.

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That is precisely what I am asking. If they do not, why do the Baptism of the dead in the first place?

When the work is done for a deceased person, they have the option of accepting it. We do the work for everyone in hopes that they choose to accept it. You might change your mind in the next life. If you believe the church is not true, how would doing the work for you hurt you anyway?

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But what if it does? Suppose you croak and find out that the big G upstairs looks in your records and sees you are in a list that doesn't make it.

I don't suppose LDS members would like The Church if Satan baptising their members without a say in the matter for the same reason.

That presupposes that God would judge you and punish you for the actions of another. Do you believe he would do that?

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Sounds great, thanks for the info.

You can even ACCEPT IT and then REJECT IT later on.

Nothing is ever "locked-in" as far as what you choose to BELIEVE or DO.

Now, at some point -- the die is cast and you will not be able to have more chances to repent. But at that point ... it will be clear to you and theLord that have made the choice and it is firm.

That is the entire point -- we choose how blessed we want to be. He already desires to bless us -- it's not like we have to convince Him.

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That presupposes that God would judge you and punish you for the actions of another. Do you believe he would do that?

Do you?

Or maybe the question is Do you presuppose that God would judge you and reward you for the actions of another?

If rewards are granted, why not punishments?

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If you think it's all hocus pocus, why do you care? You'll be dead. If it makes a relative happy, it sems harmless. If it is a true principle it seems critical. If it is just a false ceremony it seems fruitless. So why the concern? If someone in India says a prayer that I grow the tail of a donkey, what do I care, if I disbelieve in the efficacy of their prayer?

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It just seems like a waste of time. Why would I want someone spending the energy doing something that not only goes against my desires, but enforces belief in them I don't believe to be true for my "benefit"?

Did that make any sense?

Its the same reason I asked the church not to send Missionaries over to my house. I'm polite enough to not want them to waste their time.

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I don't suppose LDS members would like The Church if Satan baptising their members without a say in the matter for the same reason.

This sentence confuses me, but it seems you are wondering how Church members would feel if they were proxy baptised into the Church of Satan.

Such an event would not concern me, as I don't believe any priesthood authority is greater than that of God the Father. In other words, their ordinance, in my estimation, would carry no water. Pun intented.

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