Harry Potter Is Satanic!

[cinepro]

Orson Scott Card wrote this "history of Snape" before book 7 came out.

Who Is Snape?

It's pretty long, but it's an interesting overview of Snape's development as a literary character, and shows how Rowling's use for him changed as the books progressed. He also makes predictions for Book 7, which are always fun to read after you've read the book.

[Marmonboy]

And the most interesting thing about Card's essay is that he hit the nail right on the head with his guess about what happens to Snape at the end.

[cinepro]

~~~~~~~~~~~SPOILER ALERT~~~~~~~~

OSC Said:

Rowling has made Snape so malicious, so unfair, so vindictive, so cruel to Harry and his friends over the course of the first six volumes that, even though we have been given some justifications for his actions, it would be very difficult for her to bring him through the final confrontation alive -- for she would then have the problem of deciding how Snape and Harry will treat each other after Snape behaves nobly.

What is she going to do, have Snape wash his hair and, now that he doesn't have to act so bad, give Harry a big old hug and say, "I knew you could do it, Harry, my lad!"

Not that there wouldn't be a precedent: At the end of the Star Wars trilogy, George Lucas shows us Darth Vader, a mass murderer and war criminal, so completely redeemed by the act of saving Luke's life that his soul appears as the moral equal of Yoda and Obi-wan, when they all appear to Luke at the Ewok sock hop.

I think that would have been a great ending for the series. Everyone has a huge party to celebrate Voldemort's death, with the house elves dancing around singing "Yub-Yub". Witches on brooms streak overhead, fireworks exploding in their wake.

Harry seems pained as he sees the others' joy, and he turns to gaze forlornly in the distance. Then, just outside the celebration, he sees the spirits of Dumbledore and Dobby, gazing at him joyously. Then we see the spirit of Snape- no, the Spirit of YOUNG Snape! appear alongside them, as all three look proudly back at Harry.

[Music crescendo, and iris out...]

[urroner]

~~~~~~~~~~~SPOILER ALERT~~~~~~~~

OSC Said:

I think that would have been a great ending for the series. Everyone has a huge party to celebrate Voldemort's death, with the house elves dancing around singing "Yub-Yub". Witches on brooms streak overhead, fireworks exploding in their wake.

Harry seems pained as he sees the others' joy, and he turns to gaze forlornly in the distance. Then, just outside the celebration, he sees the spirits of Dumbledore and Dobby, gazing at him joyously. Then we see the spirit of Snape- no, the Spirit of YOUNG Snape! appear alongside them, as all three look proudly back at Harry.

[Music crescendo, and iris out...]

The movie ain't made yet. There is still hope.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Simply being or associating with a lawyer is extremely satanic. Need I say more?

When I found out of the 12 was a lawyer it shook my faith.

Pa Pa

[myleague]

The last question in a job interview was what was the last book I had read this year. I replied I was working on the latest Harry Potter book... Needless to say, I got the job. Now I'll actually have to finish it to have water cooler conversations. Can an evil book bring forth good fruit? I say unto you nay!

[Lightbearer]

I can recall the first time I ever heard of Harry Potter I was on trade-offs (exchanges) with the Missionaries who were teaching an EV a discussion and she asked where we stood on Harry Potter...I told her I did not know, but one thing I did know is that people gave Satan too much credit...or too little. He would not use such means to try to lead people away from Christ. Instead I believe he uses much more subtle methods, instead he denies the possibility of revelation, says that the heavens are sealed and that God cannot speak today and certainly not to living Prophets and Apostles. I think he uses pride and contention to stir people up to anger and make them hate each other. I think he uses anti-Mormon bigots to ridicule sacred things and to lift their heels against the Lord's anointed. Instead of condeming childrens fantasy books and movies why not condemn real evil? Since that time I have seen all the movies and enjoy them very much, (in fact I have them on DVD and await the release of the latest movie) although I have not read the books, from what I have seen in the movies I see no evil or glorification of Satan. In fact quite the opposite Harry seems to be a symbol of good...true there is the element of evil forces in the stories but they are clearly shown to be bad or wrong. That is not Satanic that is good drama. I think those who call it Satanic are uninformed and blinded to their own evil influences so that they must make up a "boogie man" and label it Satanic. Where does Harry Potter try to condemn the truth of the restoration? Or mock sacred things? Or teach Anti-Christ doctrines?

[USU78]

Where does Harry Potter try to condemn the truth of the restoration? Or mock sacred things? Or teach Anti-Christ doctrines?

One of the things that struck me in the final Potter chapter is the frequent usage by the characters we have come to treasure, like the Weasley parents, is that they, in times of stress, will say things like "Thank G-d!" You never hear the deatheater types saying such a thing, however. I do not think this is accidental, though it may have been unconscious on the author's part.

These are characters peopling a universe separate from us Muggle-types who go to Church and post on message boards, yet at their very core they have all the behaviors one would expect from a committed Christian. They are loyal, caring, loving, and, above all, self-sacrificing. The title character learns of his parents' self-sacrifice through reports. He sees first-hand, however, the self-sacrifice of his godfather, the Weasleys, Dumbledore, and, finally, Snape, especially Snape -- and from Snape's own perspective, so that we see truly how he intended his actions and what informed his decisions.

I think Rowling created a far more Christian book (as did Tolkien) than she consciously intended, and despite her own expressions of doubt last night in her TV interview.

[cinepro]

they have all the behaviors one would expect from a committed Christian. They are loyal, caring, loving, and, above all, self-sacrificing. The title character learns of his parents' self-sacrifice through reports. He sees first-hand, however, the self-sacrifice of his godfather, the Weasleys, Dumbledore, and, finally, Snape, especially Snape -- and from Snape's own perspective, so that we see truly how he intended his actions and what informed his decisions.

I didn't know loyalty, caring, loving and self-sacrificing were Christian concepts. I sure feel sorry for all the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Scientologists, pagans, atheists and other non-Christians who have to make it through life without such things.

I had the exact opposite impression as you. In the world of Harry Potter, there can be no other religions. If, by chance, other religions do exist, than they must be considered impotent and nothing more than meaningful superstitions invented to comfort the powerless muggles. The entire series would have ended with a fantastic implosion the second a single character mentioned they were Christian, or someone tried to repel a dementor in the name of Jesus Christ.

If Christianity (or even the Mormon Priesthood !) could exist in the Harry Potter universe, then it would either have to be less powerful then magic, or stronger, If it is less powerful, then Rowling would get lynched. If it is more powerful, then Harry just needed to get baptised and ordained to the priesthood. That could have saved Rowling a lot of time.

[USU78]

I didn't know loyalty, caring, loving and self-sacrificing were Christian concepts. I sure feel sorry for all the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Scientologists, pagans, atheists and other non-Christians who have to make it through life without such things.

I think you quite missed my point, cp. Note please:

they have all the behaviors one would expect from a committed Christian

I said nothing one way or another about Jews, etc., which I would hope you would have noticed. I don't expect the Patil twins to be Christian . . . I just note, for the benefit of the self-professed Christians who would reject the Potter books, that the admirable characters have traits and behaviors that one would expect in Christians (not that we wouldn't expect them in others belonging to other faith traditions).

[cinepro]

I think you quite missed my point, cp. Note please:

I said nothing one way or another about Jews, etc., which I would hope you would have noticed. I don't expect the Patil twins to be Christian . . . I just note, for the benefit of the self-professed Christians who would reject the Potter books, that the admirable characters have traits and behaviors that one would expect in Christians (not that we wouldn't expect them in others belonging to other faith traditions).

I don't think the Christians that reject the HP books care about these things. They care if their kids accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and they care whether their kids have a casual attitude towards anti-christian concepts such as Dark Magik, Witches and Warlocks, Paganism, Satanism etc. Satan will teach kids to be extremely loyal, loving and self-sacrificing if he can also get them to take their eyes off of Christ.

[cjcampbell]

I don't think the Christians that reject the HP books care about these things. They care if their kids accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and they care whether their kids have a casual attitude towards anti-christian concepts such as Dark Magik, Witches and Warlocks, Paganism, Satanism etc. Satan will teach kids to be extremely loyal, loving and self-sacrificing if he can also get them to take their eyes off of Christ.

I don't think witches, warlocks, magic or any of the other stuff is any more Satanic than any other philosophies of men, including those taught by a great many self-professed 'Christians.'

Teaching someone that they do not have to obey the commandments of God because God will 'save' them anyway is arguably Satanic.

[consiglieri]

Thank you, everyone, for your comments, and a special thanks to cinepro for linking to that article by Orson Scott Card which was apparently prescient.

The main reason I have an interest in this topic is that some Christians approach Harry Potter the same way they approach the Book of Mormon; which is to condemn it as Satanic without having read a word.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Bond...James Bond]

***spoiler warning perhaps for Harry Potter 7***

Oh yeah....Lord of the Rings mentions because I want to (and it's been dragged up)

I think Jesus can apply to just about any hero because he was represented as all things.....he wasn't just a Returning King (like Aragorn).....he sacrificed himself too (like Harry Potter did and Frodo almost did). Basically with Jesus being represented as so many things and possessing all the best traits we want in our heros, it's hard to see any literary hero not having a look of Jesus about them. I mean Jesus is the basically ultimate book hero right? Humble and willing to sacrifice himself for the good of mankind, yet strong and just and all the other things we wish we could be. The point I'm trying to make is that the writers of Harry Potter or LotR (yeah it's debatable in the case of Tolkien who was very devout) or whatever may not have been meaning to put Christ symbols in....but had to out of necessity because Jesus was everything we want in a hero.

Alright....did that make any sense?

[MJNSW]

I am pleased to announce that last Monday night, I finished the new Harry Potter book at 12:20 a.m.

The day before (Monday) I was in court, proudly sporting my green Slytherin rubber bracelet and an attorney acquaintance of mine registered shock and asked if I really read that stuff, advising me that it was "Satanic."

He said he doesn't let his kids watch that stuff.

I asked if he lets his kids read that stuff?

He said no.

He assured me that he and his kids agree that it is Satanic.

__________

Next morning (Tuesday) I saw the same attorney in another court and told him that I had finished reading the new Harry Potter book the night before, and that after reading every word in it, I could assure him that it is not Satanic.

To that, he had no response.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[SolarPowered]

Harry Potter Is Satanic!

I rather thought that Voldemort was more the satanic one. Harry Potter seems pretty saintly, to me.

[cjcampbell]

Harry Potter is satanic. Dungeons and Dragons is satanic. Sleeping Beauty is satanic.

Yeah, sure they are.

It seems to me that the people who go around saying that these things are satanic are the same ones going around saying Mormons are satanic. Consider the source.

[Mighty Curelom]

I rather thought that Voldemort was more the satanic one. Harry Potter seems pretty saintly, to me.

Funny you should say that. Voldemort does indeed represent evil in the Potter books, but he also represents the quest for immortality--eternal life, in Christian/Mormon parlance. In his final scene, Dumbledore says to Harry, "You are the true master of Death, because the true master does not seek to run away from Death. He accepts that he must die, and understands that there are far, far worse things in the living world than dying."

Not only does Rowling use the Potter series to condemn aspirations of immortality (the very core of virtually every religion), but she adds a touch that is particularly interesting from an LDS perspective. Voldemort spends most of book 7 searching for a super-powerful wand that would make him practically invincible. Immortal and invincible--sound like anyone we know? That's right, Voldemort's goal was the same as every latter-day-saint: Godhood. Harry, the hero and embodiment of goodness and wisdom, wins the superwand and retires it, rejecting both immortality and Godhood.

[USU78]

Funny you should say that. Voldemort does indeed represent evil in the Potter books, but he also represents the quest for immortality--eternal life, in Christian/Mormon parlance. In his final scene, Dumbledore says to Harry, "You are the true master of Death, because the true master does not seek to run away from Death. He accepts that he must die, and understands that there are far, far worse things in the living world than dying."

Not only does Rowling use the Potter series to condemn aspirations of immortality (the very core of virtually every religion), but she adds a touch that is particularly interesting from an LDS perspective. Voldemort spends most of book 7 searching for a super-powerful wand that would make him practically invincible. Immortal and invincible--sound like anyone we know? That's right, Voldemort's goal was the same as every latter-day-saint: Godhood. Harry, the hero and embodiment of goodness and wisdom, wins the superwand and retires it, rejecting both immortality and Godhood.

No seegars today, MC. In the Rowling universe, there are different types of immortality: the shadow existence of the fearful like Sir Nicholas, the Bloody Baron and Peeves the Poltergeist, the barest portion of whose existence is "in the world" interacting with the living, and only in the most superficial manner; the more intensely active "saints," the former school administrators who can interact with and aid the living headmasters by giving advice or taking messages to persons at remote locations; the seized (not given) continuing existence of a Voldemort who can only continue to exist by stealing life from the living (from drinking unicorn blood in Book 1 to sucking the life out of Ginny in Book 2 to taking Harry's blood + Wormtail's hand in Books 4-7); and there is the occasionally but limited functioning in the world by Harry's parents during the crisis in Book 4. This universe presumes eternal life and a continuation of the self; presumes that self can be made to interact in positive as well as negative ways with the living.

Voldemort is the ultimate simonizer: he thinks he can buy or steal immortality, not realizing (or caring) it is a gift of grace to the righteous. The Giver of that gift is implicit, Rowling's statements of doubt notwithstanding. What the righteous dead might do in the Rowling afterlife when they're not interacting with the living is veiled, though (as we found out in Book 5) the fact that they're up to something can be apprehended by listening at the Veil in the Ministry's bowels.

You miss Rowling's message here -- and I would urge a reread of what Scott Card had to say on the subject.

[urroner]

Harry, the hero and embodiment of goodness and wisdom, wins the superwand and retires it, rejecting both immortality and Godhood.

Well, I wouldn't go that far, because one day he will die and then he will accept and gain both immortality and Godhood, but he will do it the right way, the only way and his wife Ginny and their children will all be there also.

[bjw]

While I don't think it is Satanic per se, I saw the last Harry Potter movie and thought that it did use a lot of strong occult themes, and for that reason I don't think it is appropriate for extremely young children. I've heard the author has used a lot of occult numerology and has claimed that some of the books she wrote were "channeled" works. That said, if I had children I wouldn't mind them reading/watching it if they were old enough to understand the ficticious aspects of the occultism in the books and films.

I think exploring other belief systems while young can be an excellent way for children to decide for themselves and develop their own worldview instead of being spoon-fed everything. Young people need to learn to compare and contrast what they believe with the entertainment they experience. So, if a child does bring home a video rental, book, or game that is Satanic, rather than take it away from them I think they should be allowed to watch it and find out what is contradictory with what they believe. Then, eventually, they will get into the practice of choosing their entertainment more wisely, and will develop a natural "filter mechanism" that is present in critical thinking.

[consiglieri]

Great points!

That's why, when a friend gave me a Hank Hanegraaf tape ridiculing Mormonism, I played it for my kids so they could get an idea of what kind of guy the Bible-Answer Man really is.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[LifeOnaPlate]

MC, your interpretations of Harry Potter are really enlightening.

[SolarPowered]

While I don't think it is Satanic per se, I saw the last Harry Potter movie and thought that it did use a lot of strong occult themes,

Having read the books, I didn't really see what I would call "occult" in them. That is, the drawing on the powers of other gods or the like to accomplish magic. Rather, what I see is simply people who happen to be born with the gift of being able to perform magic, which they are trained at Hogwarts to use in a responsible manner. The books are set in a strong Christian milieu--they celebrate Christmas every year, there are a number of sincere expressions of "Thank God", and the like.

They do not call upon pagan gods, nor upon earth, wind, fire, and water, nor do they do anything else that I recognize as part of the Wiccan world. They simply perform the magic they were born with, and cast spells in Latin.

I didn't happen to notice any "numerology", either, though I wasn't looking for it. If it's there, it's pretty invisible. (Plus, even if it were there, it's not clear to me that there is anything sinister about numerology.)

[urroner]

They also celebrated Easter.