Priests And Priestesses

[SquarePeg48]

One thing about priesthood that I haven't seen addressed or acknowledged by posters here is that the idea of hierarchy and power within God's kingdom are rather useless concepts. As far as what I have understood, the priesthood is not something that gives privilege or rights (though we mortals seem to have a tremendous fondness for thinking and acting as if it does); rather, it is a call to responsibility and duty. Men have one set of duties and responsibilities, women have another. Both sets are important and essential for the Kingdom of God to roll forth. To me, the discussion of whether women need the priesthood or not makes about as much sense as asking if women need to be able to produce sperm or if men should have wombs. The human race is perpetuated by both male and female coming together to add their genetic pattern to create a wholly new individual in a creative act. Men cannot create a child by themselves, and for all the hoopla about the creation of a child being a woman's "role" to comensate for not having priesthood, neither can a woman create a child without a man.

The ultimate purpose for mortality is to learn to be as God is, from the LDS perspective. Godhood includes at its very core the idea of love and service. Priesthood is one way God gives for humans to serve one another. Of course there are women prophets, priestesses, etc...when the need is there and a woman is the right person for the situation, she is given what she needs to take care of things. Women are authorized to exercise certain functions similarly in the temple; how different is that from the priesthood?

I wish my Gospel Link had not crashed and I was not too cheap to pay the subscription fee for it again; Hugh Nibley once said something along the lines that if men really understood the burden of the priesthood and the service it obligated the bearer to, men would shrink from taking it on rather than feeling as if it gave them some sort of privilege. The Kingdom of God isn't an earthly corporate organization with the president ruling things, much as we see it that way because of our lack of humility. It is a Godly organization given for the blessing and lifting of the human race. D&C 121:34-46 nicely sum up the qualities and restrictions on priesthood power used to wield power.

[Changeling]

Squarepeg48, I agree with this statement you made:

"One thing about priesthood that I haven't seen addressed or acknowledged by posters here is that the idea of hierarchy and power within God's kingdom are rather useless concepts."

Heirarchal power isn't what I was talking about. It's highly overrated anyway.

Reproductive functions are not analogous to priesthood, in my opinion. They are something else entirely.

I don't see priesthood as an authority to be obeyed, or a privilege of the few, or a service obligation. I see it as power to bless people and to make contact with the divine. Do you need to be ordained in order to do these things?

In my opinion, you do not.

So, what then is the purpose of a priesthood ordination? Perhaps its purpose is to give a man the empowering conviction that he can now reliably draw on a something much greater than his lone self and his little faith - so, he goes out and does things that he never would have attempted otherwise.

Women in the early LDS church did those things that today we associate with priesthood power (as opposed to eccesiastical authority). And they were very, very good at it.

[Avatar4321]

This isnt really difficult to understand when you understand the differences between the offices of the priesthood and the Priesthood Orders.

The offices of the Priesthood are confered upon worthy males. But the orders of the priesthood are entered into by all members through the ordinances of the Gospel. It is through those ordinances that we gain the power of the Priesthood in our lives.

[Thinking]

I mentioned this in another thread but it fits here also.

We used to joke on my mission that men received the priesthood to make them equal to women. It's not that women can't have the priesthood, they don't need it!

[SquarePeg48]

I don't see priesthood as an authority to be obeyed, or a privilege of the few, or a service obligation. I see it as power to bless people and to make contact with the divine. Do you need to be ordained in order to do these things?

In my opinion, you do not.

So, what then is the purpose of a priesthood ordination? Perhaps its purpose is to give a man the empowering conviction that he can now reliably draw on a something much greater than his lone self and his little faith - so, he goes out and does things that he never would have attempted otherwise.

Women in the early LDS church did those things that today we associate with priesthood power (as opposed to eccesiastical authority). And they were very, very good at it.

THere is much more to priesthood than empowerment to draw on heaven's powers. For example, when Christ was on earth, both in the Old World and in the New World, he blessed and gave the sacrament to the people. Now, when a young man, authorized by Christ, does the same on the Sabbath, I am receiving what the Lord would do for me if He were here. Additionally, there are saving ordinances, baptism, endowment, sealing, etc. that give ME power from heaven, and allow me to understand and participate in Godly things that I could not without that authorization. The priesthood is the authorization not just to give blessings or serve, which are functions women may do as well, it is the authorization to give access to heavenly power in the same way which Jesus would were he here in person. This is one of the roles in God's kingdom but without the role of women it is useless as well. If you are able to attend the temple and participate in the endowment and sealing ordinances there, you may learn a great deal more about what woman's role in the Kingdom to build and lift it is. As mentioned, within the temple, women also are authorized to administer ordinances. My perception is that the role of women is not so easily defined and visible as is the priesthood role. Again, we humans have a tendency to think that what is seen by the world and others is therefore the most important. It is not so. Both roles are necessary (as in my analogy to reproduction, which I believe is an appropriate analogy) for the creative and growth process of the Kingdom of God on earth and in heaven. If women could recognize and appreciate the immense and significant role they play in the preparation of earth for the pending arrival of the Savior again, they would not begrudge the priesthood to men. Our role is much deeper, more marvelous, and more powerful than we give ourselves credit for, and it is not understood in terms that the world can possibly understand. Our role is demeaned, lessened, and denigrated by the world, and even by some within the church. It is a difficult thing to carry out, and whenever we bow to the idea of "power" in the world's views and desire to be seen as important by others, we are not, as women, focused on that role. So much of spiritual things can be understood in symbolic terms; the analogy of reproduction is in many ways symbolic of the deeper spiritual truths of the role of male priesthood and womanhood.

[Calm]

Also, women are queens and priestesses to the Lord indirectly, if they are queens and priestesses to their husbands who are kings and priests to Him.

Considering how the current relationship of woman to man was instituted after the Fall and was not apparently the original state, it seems to me much more likely that women will be "queens and priestesses to the Lord" directly and not just through their relationship with their husband.

[Maidservant]

I agree. We need to realize that we may be organized telestially and/ or terrestrially right now.

As well: I repeat that all things that are done representing God (in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) are done by priesthood power (think: delegation).

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the gathering of Israel. The organization and offices therein are the gathering of Israel. So the roles of men and women in the church are what the roles are for men and women in the gathering of Israel. But these roles do not speak to, nor translate into other roles in other parts of God's work, such as families, temples, and such things as national governments and professional opportunities (etc) and further things we may find ourselves in as we leave the telestial world behind.

I should also say I have been thinking quite a bit about how lovely it is to reproduce and nourish one's offspring free from burdens in the world. I desire this freedom and peace. I do not have it. Or I should say that I do not have it perfectly, as there is no man that is bound to me to provide this service for me (and my/ his children). I will acknowledge that since I have no man, that God has blessed me in other ways to be uplifted from this burden, although much of it remains, that I feel that I am in an animal world sometimes, where I have to fend in the jungle for my cubs -- there is no equally nurturing or fending male at my side. I have an appreciation for this opportunity available to women (who desire it), as this opportunity has been removed from me.