Priests And Priestesses

[honer80080]

In the temple we learn of the potential in each of us to be priests and priestesses. I know there is always a possibility that the Lord has future plans to allow women to hold the priesthood, and in fact has allowed women in the past to be priestesses and even prophets. My questions is what is the probability that women will again hold the priesthood in my life time? Is there any probability that a revelation is forth coming similar to all worthy males being able to receive the priesthood where all worthy people will be able to hold the priesthood?

Tred carefully here folk, temple content will not be tolerated and the Opening Post has already set the stage for shutting this thread down. - Herakles

edit: removed temple content.

[thesometimesaint]

honer80080:

Without going into Temple content. Why would you assume that women are not made Priestesses in the next life?

[honer80080]

honer80080:

Without going into Temple content. Why would you assume that women are not made Priestesses in the next life?

i'm quite certain that they will become priestesses in the next life (depending on worthiness.) my question is what is the probability of women becoming preistesses in this life.

[Amulek]

Is â??prophetessâ?? a priesthood office? Iâ??m not sure that it is.

Is there any probability that a revelation is forth coming similar to all worthy males being able to receive the priesthood where all worthy people will be able to hold the priesthood?

Yes. The probability is somewhere between 0 and 1.

[JNclone]

Kings and Queens, Priests and Priestesses. I know there is always a possibility that the Lord has future plans to allow women to hold the priesthood, and in fact has allowed women in the past to be priestesses and even prophets. My questions is what is the probability that women will again hold the priesthood in my life time? Is there any probability that a revelation is forth coming similar to all worthy males being able to receive the priesthood where all worthy people will be able to hold the priesthood?

Tred carefully here folk, temple content will not be tolerated and the Opening Post has already set the stage for shutting this thread down. - Herakles

I have observed this board for some time, and I bet the answer will be in effect:

1. God can and will reveal whatever he wishes when he wishes.

but ...

2. The teaching of the COJCOLDS is very firm on the issue of the different roles of men and women, and so a change is extremely unlikely.

Looking however at what was said about the absolute impossibility of changing the doctrine of the priesthood as it applied to exclude black men, and the fact that that doctrine was eventually changed 'by revelation', who is to say what can happen here?

[honer80080]

1. God can and will reveal whatever he wishes when he wishes.

Thanks for the reply. your number one point is why i asked the probability and not the possibilty. All things are possible, but i want to know is it likely.

[honer80080]

Is â??prophetessâ?? a priesthood office? Iâ??m not sure that it is.

i'm not certain it is either, but i'm not certain that it isn't. we sustain the first presidency and quorum of the 12 as prophets, seers, and revelators, but i don't know if they are ever set apart as such.

[thesometimesaint]

honer80080:

IIRC Yes they are.

[honer80080]

sorry everyone, can anyone remind me what IIRC means?

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly (IIRC) - Herakles

[SlackTime]

i'm not certain it is either, but i'm not certain that it isn't. we sustain the first presidency and quorum of the 12 as prophets, seers, and revelators, but i don't know if they are ever set apart as such.

Apostle is a priesthood office, President of the Church is a priesthood office, Counselor to the President of the Church is a priesthood office. All the men in these offices are sustained by the membership as prophets, seers, and revelators to show that we sustain and will give heed to their counsel.

A person who has the Spiritual gift of prophecy is a prophet. As Moses said, "... would God that all the LORDâ??s people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!" In this a woman can be a prophet or prophetess if you prefer. It is a gift of the Spirit.

11 For all have not every gift given unto them; for there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God.

12 To some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby.

13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.

14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.

15 And again, to some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know the differences of administration, as it will be pleasing unto the same Lord, according as the Lord will, suiting his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men.

16 And again, it is given by the Holy Ghost to some to know the diversities of operations, whether they be of God, that the manifestations of the Spirit may be given to every man to profit withal.

17 And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given, by the Spirit of God, the word of wisdom.

18 To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

19 And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed;

20 And to others it is given to have faith to heal.

21 And again, to some is given the working of miracles;

22 And to others it is given to prophesy;

23 And to others the discerning of spirits.

24 And again, it is given to some to speak with tongues;

25 And to another is given the interpretation of tongues.

26 And all these gifts come from God, for the benefit of the children of God.

When a man is sustained to one of these offices (apostle, president, etc) I am sure that he is blessed with those gifts relevant to his calling and in this case that would include the gift of prophecy, but it is not a separate office.

As for women and the priesthood... well, my personal heresy and speculations on this point aren't really important, what is important is the difference between the priesthood and the keys of the priesthood. I hold the melchizedek priesthood but I don't hold the keys to administer. Therefore, even though I can baptize, I can't unless one with the correct key authorizes me to do so. Even though I can ordain another person to the priesthood, I can't without the approval of the person holding the key. The keys are held by those called to administrative positions, Bishops, Stake Presidents, Apostles, President of the Church.

-SlackTime

[Olavarria]

answer:

DOnt know, dont care, God has more in His bag than He has seen fit to reveal at present time.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Consider the following, and tread lightly:

Men must be ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood in order to be endowed. Women, however, do not.

[Nofear]

I see this quote running around:

President [Joseph Fielding] Smith explained: "While the sisters have not been given the Priesthood, â?¦ that does not mean that the Lord has not given unto them authority. Authority and Priesthood are two different things. A person may have authority given to him, or a sister to her, to do certain things in the Church that are binding and absolutely necessary for our salvation, such as the work that our sisters do in the House of the Lord." (Relief Society Magazine, Jan. 1959, p. 4.)

Does somebody have access to the article? Page 4 isn't even listed in the Literature Database (http://mormonlit.lib.byu.edu/lit_work.php?...ume=46#VOLUME46).

[kamenraider]

Revelation 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We can see from the above scripture that men can be made kings and priests unto God, but can women be made queens and priestesses unto God?

"Do I talk plainly? God expects me to talk plainly. I have not come here to daub you with untempered mortar, but I tell you the truth. And while He has called us to high privileges, to thrones and principalities and dominions, and to be saviors on Mount Zion, and to be kings and priests unto God, and our wives, queens and priestesses unto their husbands, while God has ordained us for this, in the name of Israel's God we will try and carry it out."

--John Taylor, August 28, 1881, Journal of Discourses, Vol.22, pg.311 - p.312.

[urroner]

Thanks for the reply. your number one point is why i asked the probability and not the possibilty. All things are possible, but i want to know is it likely.

Whether this is likely or not is a difficult question to answer. Is it probable that I could die tomorrow? Is it probable that a flood will sweep through my neighborhood and destroy my home? Is it probable that I could find another wife within the next five years? I really don't know.

If you would have asked the typical member 50 years ago if the Church would have a temple inside the boundaries of the old USSR, they would have emphatically said no. If you would have asked the typical anti-Mormon 150 years if the Church would be in the position it is today, they would have laughed at you and asked you their equivalent of "What are you smoking buddy? Can I have some too?"

All we can say is "Yes, it's possible that women could be ordained to the priesthood soon, but it's not probable."

[honer80080]

i think kamenraider just knocked it out of the park. "Queens and priestesses to their husbands." No one is in the celestial kingdom save they have entered into the everlasting convenant of marriage. Celestial beings are then actually 2 part beings. for both parts to hold the priesthood is redundant.

[Helorum]

No one is in the celestial kingdom save they have entered into the everlasting convenant of marriage.

False doctrine. Try again.

[Helorum]

can women be made queens and priestesses unto God? . . . . "to be kings and priests unto God, and our wives, queens and priestesses unto their husbands" John Taylor, August 28, 1881, Journal of Discourses, Vol.22, pg.311 - p.312.

You need to take into account EVERYTHING John Taylor said on this subject ----

"Have you forgot who you are, and what your object is? Have you forgot that you profess to be Saints of the Most High God, clothed upon with the Holy Priesthood? Have you forgot that you are aiming to become Kings and Priests to the Lord, and Queens and Priestesses to Him?" John Taylor, April 19, 1854, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, pg. 373.

[kamenraider]

False doctrine. Try again.

I think honer80080 just meant the highest degree.

Also, women are queens and priestesses to the Lord indirectly, if they are queens and priestesses to their husbands who are kings and priests to Him. Can you remember how the anointing ordinances for women are worded? That's pretty important to consider.

[Maidservant]

ALL things in the Church of Jesus Christ are done by priesthood power and priesthood delegation -- ALL things. "The power and authority to act in the name of God."

Based on learning, revelation and experience, I am perfectly satisfied for myself that I do not lack anything as relates to the priesthood.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in the priesthood governments of wards (bishop) and stakes (stake president), is THE GATHERING OF ISRAEL literally. Any priesthood administrative authority evidenced in that format is relating only to that format (in general). It is not necessarily a statement on any or all priesthood formats (governments) available for use/ expression in time or eternity.

The family is a priesthood organization and I hold the office of Mother in that organization. I do not preside, although actually I personally do at present, ruling over my children, since their Father I am sealed to is on a mission in the spirit world. I do not baptize (or etc) my children into the church/ camp of Israel (since I do not have that authority in that organization) but I have performed my duty and privilege of inducting these children from the premortal spirit world into this temporal world. Here is an even better question -- how soon do you think it will be before men are allowed to give birth?

[Cold Steel]

I know there is always a possibility that the Lord has future plans to allow women to hold the priesthood, and in fact has allowed women in the past to be priestesses and even prophets. My questions is what is the probability that women will again hold the priesthood in my lifetime? Is there any probability that a revelation is forth coming similar to all worthy males being able to receive the priesthood where all worthy people will be able to hold the priesthood?

I welcomed the 1978 revelation, but if such a thing as you're talking about were to happen, it would have happened then, not at some future time.

The priesthood within couples works through the men. Women can show forth great faith and they can receive revelation and insight, but what we experience in the temple makes it quite clear that the chain of command is not based on equality of the sexes. It's quite consistent with the New Testament which teaches that woman is to man as man is to God in the covenant process. A man may receive revelation for his wife and family, but a woman cannot receive revelation for the man.

Can God change this? Yes, of course, but He is unlikely to do so based on our knowledge gleaned through the scriptures and through the temple ordinances.

In our day, it's common for women and men to be totally equal in a relationship; however, our astronomical rate of divorce indicates this may not be the best way for family governance. Ideally, the man should be the lead and the woman his support. Let's face it, for better or worse, heaven is patriarchal in nature. Neither is the man without the woman nor the woman without the man. Priesthood is administration and cannot be held by both, just as man cannot achieve motherhood. This is frustrating to women who want administrative power, but it's not the way of God or heaven as we understand it.

I used to say I'd leave the church if such a thing happened, but I've decided I would not. If I'm wrong, I would sustain whatever the Lord's will is, but it would be difficult based on the temple and scripture.

[Maidservant]

Cold Steel, I respectfully disagree with a few statements you made and that you say that they are based on what takes place in the temple.

In the marriage and in the family, yes, a woman will receive revelation for that marriage and that family and can and ought to counsel her husband with this revelation. Not only that, a wise man will seek out his wife and ask her for what her revelations are. Whether this is attributed strictly to priesthood, I don't know or care, also I would tend to think it is, because as you say, the priesthood in a marriage and parenthead of a family cannot be functional without both the man and the woman. Decisions in the home need to be made by both parents, husband/wife, and if these decisions are being made by revelation from the Lord, then there is only one possibly outcome, that of what the Lord would have that couple do. That said, I would have loved it if my husband had felt more strongly his spiritual leadership and would have taken it up. He gave me a total of two direct commands in our marriage (never mind that they came from the "inspiration" of my in-laws, that is another matter) and although I felt both of them were wrong, I felt, for whatever reason that I had to obey, although on at least one of them I spoke with him until he felt better about the matter. Anecdotally, my mother learned that she needed to STOP ceding her agency to her husband, that that wasn't the crux of the doctrine of priesthood presiding in the home. This next little story also is NOT doctrinal considering the source, but it is first person as I was there when this happened. I attended the sealing/ marriage of my brother and his wife. We all listened as the sealer gave the brief talk that provided counsel to the couple. The sealer made these statements: "Now, you know that both of you are entitled to receive revelation for this marriage." They nodded. Then the sealer said directly to my brother, "And you know that she is going to receive most of it."

(BTW, I heartily dislike the term "equality" ur whatever when applied to the male-female dynamic; to me it is a non-concept.)

I have learned a great deal about women's purpose in the temple and none of it resembles your remarks re chain of command nor your woman is to man as man is to God. I mean, I know what you are referring to, but I must say my context for that is much more complex as to what I think I have learned at the temple. But I think I can safely say at least that a woman's covenant relationship is directly with God the same as a man's is.

Finally . . . what makes you say that heaven is patriarchal in nature?

[Changeling]

Honor 80080 wrote: My questions is what is the probability that women will again hold the priesthood in my life time?

Changeling comments: In the early church, women gave blessings and Joseph Smith said it was okay. Unfortunately, I don't know the format they followed. Also, Joseph made several statements that can be interpreted as indicating priesthood-like privileges and powers were in store for the sisters. Based upon a reading of numerous Nauvoo and early Utah Valley diaries (which I no longer have access to), the practice of women giving blessings continued for many decades and indeed one woman in particular was mentioned over and over again in connection with miraculous healings.

Maidservant wrote: The family is a priesthood organization and I hold the office of Mother in that organization.

Changeling comments: Unless things have changed drastically since I was active LDS, the family is not a priesthood organization, and "Mother" is not a priesthood calling. Nor is "Father". Men have fatherhood, women have motherhood. Men have Aaronic and then Melchezidek priesthood, women have.... what??

LifeOnaPlate wrote: Consider the following, and tread lightly: Men must be ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood in order to be endowed. Women, however, do not.

Changeling comments: That is a very, very, very interesting fact. I have no idea whether you came to the same conclusion I did when contemplating upon it, but the implications could redraw one's roadmap.

[Magical Alma]

Women's gift is having children. It has been said many times. What is so complicated about that? Why do they need priesthood powers? Also, they aren't the head of the household, so this would just complicate things in determining who is the leader of the family.

Consider the following, and tread lightly: Men must be ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood in order to be endowed. Women, however, do not.

So what? They have to be just as morally pure to be endowed, so it's not as if that's an advantage for them. Not sure what your point is. They have to be endowed, so doing it without giving them the priesthood is all they can do.

[Maidservant]

I maintain that the family/ marriage -- an eternal one -- is a priesthood organization, and this is not a change, it has always been so since the days of Adam, and since the restoration of the sealing power in the modern age.

A man must have the Melchizedek priesthood and he must have entered all of the covenants contained in the endowment before he is prepared for the next covenant which is marriage -- in which he receives a wife and children.

The (eternal) family is governed by priesthood; it is governed by the same pattern as all priesthood government and organizations, and that includes, namely, priesthood councils. A family should be governed by a family council.

Gosh, I typed a lot of things here and then deleted them, not feeling it was the right place to share them. One simply must find out for themselves. Again, I will state that I am aware and satisfied that there is NOTHING missing in my life as a woman as relates to the gospel and the powers of godliness and priesthood, and if any thing it is the OTHER WAY AROUND -- men are missing out! You don't even know it, ha ha! Nah, neither gender is missing anything.

Happy seeking.