LifeOnaPlate Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 I would charge, but the server is run free for me through my work and it honestly took me about 30 seconds to put it up. I don't think Lifeonaplate wants to send me $1 plus change for the labor.Ok, should be ready to go.
dbschroeder Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 I'm just a bit surprised that Aaron doesn't write all in caps. We should be grateful for small mercies.Brilliant.
Bsix Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Thanks for posting the video. All I can say is Wow!Observations...He does preach non-stop. He did not take time to take a drink.He did not stop and converse with bystanders.He was yelling and carrying on.He was wiping his mouth during the diatribe.Favorite moments...Aaron, an Evangelical street preacher screams a sermon on the monotheistic nature of God...and then quotes the Bible declaring that "God is the God of gods." So much for monotheism.I loved the person carrying around a "Teriyaki Burger" sign.I don't think that LifeOnaPlate is unfairly off the mark in describing AaronShaf's evangelizing.Regards,Six
Jerubaal Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 This is where we part ways to a large extent. I think most evangelicals have not really studied the LDS beliefs in any real way. They usually have the same sorts of general misconceptions that most people have regarding LDS, i.e. polygamy and not being allowed to drink Coke. This was my experience attending an evangelical college with students from all fifty states and a few dozen countries besides. Their knowledge (or lack thereof) is not based on hostility or prejudice, but on lack of direct experience and lack of any real need or desire to find out more. For most evangelicals, Mormonism is very much a non-issue. It's something that they've heard this-or-that about, but not much else.Rhino, though I love you to death (in the same way aaronshaf "loves" me?), my experience tells me that this problem is more widespread than you know, or are willing to concede. Growing up in the San Diego area, I repeatedly heard of seminars being hosted by Evangelical churches. These seminars were blatantly anti-Mormon. In the suburb of San Diego that I lived in, there were 3 main EV churches, a Baptist place, a generic (couldn't think of a better word) EV church (called Grace Community Church), and a Calvary Chapel (the Calvary Chapel was particularly notorios for its anti-Mormon ciriculum). All of these churches regularly hosted these seminars, and I know that at the very least Calvary Chapel had anti-Mormonism as part of its regular ciriculum (The kids at school who went there would always come to me telling me various things they had learned about Mormonism at church, or from their pastor). My experiences in San Diego outside of my town, and my brothers's experiences on their missions to the south (Texas and Louisiana) confirm what I experienced on a much smaller scale.Even though individual members of EV churches (or at least those I have had experience with), as a whole, do not preach anti-Mormonism, they are fed this trash by people they trust, and seem to be supportive of this stuff, even if they do not directly participate in it. I still vividly recall an experience with a girl in high school who told me that I believe that women will be eternally pregnant in heaven. When I asked her where she heard it, she told me it was from an "expert" who had "studied" Mormonism and who had spoken at the last anti-Mormon seminar conducted by the Calvary Chapel that she attended.I apologize that I will be unable to respond much to any counter-arguments made. I will have limited web access (and dial-up at that) for the next few weeks prior to my entering the MTC. And I also apologize for my incoherence and the largely experiental and anecdotal nature of my evidence.
Calm Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 I checked on it, and it's the one.Here it is.Definitely yelling, especially when he got to the part of saying "God kicked butt in Egypt"...not sure why he kept saying that.And he did wipe his mouth. The way he held his mouth while yelling reminds me of a relative, he has a problem with spitting as well.He looked pretty tired too. Wasn't in the mood to discuss things apparently. Didn't want to be interrupted I guess.The logic of such approaches defeats me. People tend to reject messages if they associate it with unpleasantness.
LifeOnaPlate Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 When he said "God kicked BUTT in Egypt!!!" is the moment the white foamy spit came out, but it doesn't show up in the viedeo, though he does wipe it away. At any rate, this was actually a rather tame moment; he didnt get into the sexual nature of God during this video, though he did earlier.
oats Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 I'll confirm Jerubaal's comments about San Diego and the surrounding cities such as El Cajon and Santee. In San Diego anti-Mormonism (or 'Mormon research') is something that is constantly reinforced in the minds of area Church goers.
Programmer Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 In Sacramento back in 95, any church that any sizeable amount of money coming in usually had anti-mormon classes, lectures etc. The Capital Christian church was the seat for the devil... (ahem, uhm, the other guy who helped make the movie the God Makers) Even some of the smaller churches were very active in persecuting missionaries, especially one up in Fair Oaks. I also went in to a few of the christian bookstores in the Sacramento area, and they had the usual assortment of anti-mormon books and witnessing materials for attacking LDS doctrine. Don't try to tell me that Evangelical churches don't provide a fertile feeding ground for this stuff. To me, looking at the broad picture of things, it just proves that where ever a Christian church is getting persecuted, then there is PROOF that the one getting persecuted has more Christian TRUTH than the one doing the persecuting. As far as I've seen, none of those anti-mormon materials correctly represents the church in their books, pamphlets or lectures. They are guilty of lying in a most serious and profound way over something that is Eternally important. Their very souls stand in jeapordy before the Lord for their perfidious dishonesty.
Programmer Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 I checked on it, and it's the one.Here it is.If you could post it in a Windows format that would be great. I'm opposed to installing two horrendously huge media players on one machine. One is enough...
maklelan Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 I'll confirm Jerubaal's comments about San Diego and the surrounding cities such as El Cajon and Santee. In San Diego anti-Mormonism (or 'Mormon research') is something that is constantly reinforced in the minds of area Church goers.When I lived in Texas the anti-Mormon sentiments were outrageous. A guy I worked with told me they watched the Godmakers and other anti-Mormon films in his Lutheran Sunday school growing up. A friend from my ward tried to enroll his little girl in a private Christian elementary school and they wouldn't allow it because, "Mormons aren't Christian." The protesting that took place when out temple was built was incredible. They would canvas all the meetinghouses and write down all the license plate numbers, use some kind of police department directory to get their addresses, and then send representatives with anti-Mormon media to try to get them to leave the church. The front page of all the big newspapers in Dallas ran a headline like this: "Baptist Families Prepare for Mormon Invasion," when the temple was being built. We had an evangelical church by our chapel from which weird guys would come and sit through sacrament and ask idiotic questions and wouldn't give us their names. When I moved out of Texas I was convinced I had seen every single anti-Mormon argument there was. It took five years to hear a new one.
LifeOnaPlate Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 Every last Christian bookstore I've visited has anti-mormon works in their cult section. Dozens of book stores.
maklelan Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Every last Christian bookstore I've visited has anti-mormon works in their cult section. Dozens of book stores.Ditto.
Sput Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Ok I just started watching the video. Aaron states that Heavenly Father (God) knows no other Gods. What about Jesus being God. Does God not know Jesus? The Holy Ghost? Another God the Father doesn't know? That arguement makes no sense when its cut from single one liner scripture qoutes out of context it just sounds silly. Ill agree with one thing. "God does kick butt". However not only in Egypt but everywhere.
Sput Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Ditto.We have 3 Christian Book stores in the small city I live in that also have anti-Mormonism books in the cult section. Along with tracts against Mormonism, and cheat sheets with quick references to protect yourself from cults including mormonism.
captain-jack Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Sorry, working out the kinks for it in WMP. Should be up in that format soon. Maklelan, you know of a small town north of Dallas called The Colony?
rhinomelon Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Every last Christian bookstore I've visited has anti-mormon works in their cult section. Dozens of book stores.But unless you have evidence that these books sell like hotcakes, and to a wide variety of people, this proves nothing except that there is some kind of market for these books. This is a fact nobody denies. I simply deny that the market encompasses most evangelicals. Heck, I have a few anti-Mormon books on my shelf, but that doesn't make me an anti!Every evangelical bookstore I've been to also has books on biblical Greek. Does this mean that every evangelical speaks Greek? I wish!Take care, everyone
LifeOnaPlate Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 But unless you have evidence that these books sell like hotcakes, and to a wide variety of people, this proves nothing except that there is some kind of market for these books. This is a fact nobody denies. I simply deny that the market encompasses most evangelicals. Heck, I have a few anti-Mormon books on my shelf, but that doesn't make me an anti!Every evangelical bookstore I've been to also has books on biblical Greek. Does this mean that every evangelical speaks Greek? I wish!Take care, everyone We're not talking one or two Mormon books, we're talking a nice selection of anti-mormon works. Was there more than 5-10 boks dealing with Greek? What was the selection? I believe, from 2 years of talking to religionists of all kinds, on average, the "non-denominational" Christians were the most hostile to the LDS Church; including atheists and agnostics, and people who just wanted us off their porch.
captain-jack Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Kinks are out, here's the video in Windows Media Player. It plays in 640x480, enjoy. If anyone else has a small video like this they want to put up for a week or so, let me know and I can try to work something out for you.Let me know if there are still issues and I'll do what I can to get it working.
LifeOnaPlate Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 I suppose we can also send it to FAIR, if they'd like. Not sure who to contact, though. At any rate, sorry for all the hassle, riker.
captain-jack Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Holodeck's been boring, nice to be able to use a resource to help someone help. Makes me have that weird "special feeling"...I believe it is referred to as a "warm fuzzy", deep inside.
LifeOnaPlate Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 Holodeck's been boring, nice to be able to use a resource to help someone help. Makes me have that weird "special feeling"...I believe it is referred to as a "warm fuzzy", deep inside.prove it!
bjw Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Ok I just started watching the video. Aaron states that Heavenly Father (God) knows no other Gods. What about Jesus being God. Does God not know Jesus? The Holy Ghost? Another God the Father doesn't know? That arguement makes no sense when its cut from single one liner scripture qoutes out of context it just sounds silly. Ill agree with one thing. "God does kick butt". However not only in Egypt but everywhere.They always like to get hung up on that Isaiah 43:10 passage, but I think they take it out of context. When you read the whole chapter it seems to be countering idol worship. Anyhow, if God were to decide to make us "joint-heirs" with Christ and deify us, He would still be our God, and no other God would be formed, and we don't worship any other Father but our God, so the verse still fits with the doctrine of deification. Also, the "ye are gods" passages in both the Old & New Testament need to be considered here as well. I think the street preachers should try to focus more on salvific doctrine rather than speculations made by Mormons. If they are going to witness to us, they should tell us why we aren't saved. If they are right and we are wrong, I don't think misunderstanding an Isaiah passage would send anyone to Hell. The issue is, what are God's requirements for entering Heaven? Romans 10:9 and Romans 9:33 both seem to indicate that anyone that believes will recieve some kind of position in Heaven. Of course, it seems they've narrowed this down to exclude us.
aaronshaf Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 He did not stop and converse with bystanders.He was yelling and carrying on. How dare I spend over 2 and a half minutes in a preaching monologue. Geesh, that must really indicate there was no meaningful one-on-one or public dialog the entirety of the whole night! And man, did you see all that foam coming out? It was like a car wash!Uh huh. So much for the foam claim. All you can see is me wiping the edge my mouth for a time. You guys are really desperate.I think some of you guys should come and observe next year and see just how much dialog really happens both during the preaching and as a result of the preaching. It's hard to capture what happens during the night with just a selective 2.5 minute video clip. But hey, thanks for posting it. Let me help you out here:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3...92661&hl=enAs for the guy in the red shirt, he's the guy I elsewhere have identified as possibly demon possessed. Many tried, including myself, to have a dialog with him, but something wasn't right with him (he consistently showed up night after night acting as though he was drunk). He threw out a comment here and there, but he consistently refused to have an intelligent conversation (which I would have loved to have), so a lot of people just stopped trying to reason with him.I think someone asked what denomination I am. I'm an evangelical Protestant. One God (the Trinity), salvation by grace apart from works, merit, or personal worthiness, God designed everything ultimately for his own glory and for our happiness in giving him the glory, and the Bible is more reliable and authoritative than any living man on earth. The Christian folks at the pageant evangelizing were from all sorts of different churches. Our unity isn't ultimately in a denomination or organizational hierarchy, it's in the God we worship, the God who is God over all reality and not just a particular dominion. We can't fellowship with Mormons like that, since you guys are comfortable with the existence of potentially billions of "Eternal Fathers". I asked Robert Vuvich how he would feel if he met a fellow Mormon who believed God was once a sinner and he didn't seem too concerned (he said he'd try to correct the person, but even if the person didn't conform to the idea that God was eternally sinless, he didn't seem too concerned). It's stuff like that that makes Mormonism heretical until such beliefs are repudiated as blasphemous heresy.As for whether evangelism at the pageant "works", let me say this: multiple people get saved every year at the pageant (including this year), and some have been saved as a result of the preaching which spurred them on to do some research. I'm in e-mail dialog now, for example, with a person who was shocked by my claim that Smith married women who have living husbands.Thanks for helping me advertise JesusNotJoseph.com,Aaron
LifeOnaPlate Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 I asked Robert Vuvich how he would feel if he met a fellow Mormon who believed God was once a sinner and he didn't seem too concerned. It's stuff like that that makes Mormonism heretical until such believes are repudiated as blasphemous heresy.1- Where is it taught in LDS theology that God was once a "sinner"? Call for References, please. 2- Did Jesus have a physical body during his ministry and was he capable of death? Was God not a "man" for a time, then, loosely speaking? Yet he didn't sin, correct? Then it is possible to be a mortal man, yet be sinless?As for whether evangelism at the pageant "works", let me say this: multiple people get saved every year at the pageant (including this year), and some have been saved as a result of the preaching which spurred them on to do some research. I'm in e-mail dialog now, for example, with a person who was shocked by my claim that Smith married women who have living husbands.Thanks for helping me advertise JesusNotJoseph.com,AaronI'm personally not the biggest fan of the pagaent; it is more kitschy than I would like. But the overall spirit of the occasion helps strengthen the faith of many more Latter-day Saints than those who listen to the street preachers. 3-By the way, are you shocked by polygamy in the bible in any way? Abraham, Isaac, Jacob? Or that Samuel the Prophet gave David's wives to others?
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