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Question About Joseph Smiths Seizures


thirdwatch512

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hello you guys!

ok, now i'm asking about joseph smith's seizures.. like did he get them before he recieved a revelation, or when did he get them?

please realize that i'm not asking this to offend mormons. like there have been times when i have asked before, nad mormons have denied that he got seizures, and said that i was critisizing them. but a prophet having seizures isn't wierd. Ezeikel had seizures!

so yeah, i was just wondering WHEN joseph smith got them. some say that that's the source of his revelations..

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Did the Book of Mormon witnesses all have seizures too? :P

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This is interesting. I was not aware of this. It's interesting to note that many shamanic cultures see seizures as an indicator of spiritual power.

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you weren't aware that Smith had seizures? it's even on wikipedia, under "list of religious figures with epeleptic." i'm not saying JS was an epelectic, as it could have been from God or something.. but he did have seizures and all.

so i am asking to any mormons who know.. when did he have the seizures? was he reciting something? did a message come too?

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you weren't aware that Smith had seizures? it's even on wikipedia, under "list of religious figures with epeleptic." i'm not saying JS was an epelectic, as it could have been from God or something.. but he did have seizures and all.

so i am asking to any mormons who know.. when did he have the seizures? was he reciting something? did a message come too?

well!!............ that does it!! im throwing away my book of morman and going to start

reading 'wikpedia!..........

{just a joke thirdwatch!}....

:P

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Yes epeleptic seizures, were the origin of the Book of Mormon, the D&C the Pearl of Great Price. LOL

are you being serious, or being funny?

well!!............ that does it!! im throwing away my book of morman and going to start

reading 'wikpedia!..........

{just a joke thirdwatch!}....

:P

lol well i have heard many times, even off wikipedia, that JS had seizures and all

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Did the Book of Mormon witnesses all have seizures too? :P

You betcha. Simultaneously. Just as women who spend time together gradually synchronize their menstrual cycles, so people in general who spend time together gradually synchronize their EEG patterns. While group seizures resulting from this are rare, they have been known to occur. It's called Synchronized Seizing (SS), or Pluribus Unum Epilepsy (PUE). I should know. I'm the one who made it up.

Don Bradley, MAD M.D.

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jsxflvzklekkevkkgksdkbkbl;n;mn;;lmllmlmlmlmlm..... Sorry, I was having seizure -- turn that Pokemon show off, mama!

Seriously, I don't think Joseph Smith had seizures. For some people it's just too convenient of an explanation for experiences of Joseph Smith such as the First Vision where "thick darkness" gathered around Joseph, then he saw a great light, etc.

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You betcha. Simultaneously. Just as women who spend time together gradually synchronize their menstrual cycles, so people in general who spend time together gradually synchronize their EEG patterns. While group seizures resulting from this are rare, they have been known to occur. It's called Synchronized Seizing (SS), or Pluribus Unum Epilepsy (PUE). I should know. I'm the one who made it up.

Don Bradley, MAD M.D.

Hey, you are absolutely right about women and their cycles. I have commented on that many times and they don't believe me - at least the men don't.

Are you serious about the second part? I didn't know that.

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Some have hoped. Some have rationalized. Some have tried to find another reason. Maybe he did. I think it would be apparent to those that received the revelations in his presence, and I dont' recall any accounts of such.

IIRC, the best explanation for the First Vision is from a poster:

first, a night hag; then, an epileptic seizure; then, a hallucination.

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ok, now i'm asking about joseph smith's seizures..

Hi thirdwatch.

I suspect someone out in wikipedialand is confusing Joseph Smith's history with Ellen White. Ellen, who helped found the seventh-day adventist faith, actually had seizures.

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Hey, you are absolutely right about women and their cycles. I have commented on that many times and they don't believe me - at least the men don't.

Are you serious about the second part? I didn't know that.

Hi Hoops,

I may not be the one who discovered the synchronization of menstrual cycles, but I am the one who totally, absolutely made up the synchronization of EEGs. I pulled it out of a hat.

Actually, for all I know, brain-wave synchronization might actually be real. Heart rates appear to move toward synchronization when people are together for a while; so, it wouldn't be surprising if brain waves did as well. But, scientifically plausible or not, my comments were purely for fun!

BTW, Joseph Smith did, according to many reports, turn pale during a vision or revelation. But this is the only physical change of which I've read. So far as I know there isn't good evidence for diagnosing him with a seizure disorder.

Don

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This sounds like speculation that he had temporal lobe seizures.

No documentation/diagnosis of which I'm aware.

Temporal lobe epileptics (TLE) can be gradiose, extremely religious and philosophical. They are often very ill.

There is no reasonable evidence that Joseph Smith had any seizure disorder let alone T.L.E.

I think it is going beyond the available historical data to issue any form of psychiatric or neurological diagnosis for Joseph Smith.

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I bet if we were to hook up a person having a vision to the EEG or whatever, I bet we would find unusual brain activity that one could interpret as a siezure.

Think for a second, how can somebody have a vision, and yet the ones standing next to them doesn't? This happened to somebody when I was working with them. They blanked out and after a few seconds, said they had a vision of being in the temple.

Perhaps the two are somehow linked, and yet not quite the same. As far as I understand, the people I've talked too who have siezures haven't seen God or anything. My theory is that a siezure occures when the brain tries to access information that doesn't exist. In the case of some of my friends who have brain damage, it occures when the brain tries to access that region of the brain by mistake. It could be with visions that the brain is led to actually obtain information outside the body. It picks up on an energy source, and that source decompresses itself in the brain and forms the sight you are looking at. Think of it as like a spiritual projector. God appears, but in order for us to see Him, we need the proper codec, which is downloaded to our brain by the Holy Ghost, and then the vision plays and we see what we normally can't see.

Oh, and this means that satan is Blu Ray technology.

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I don't know about seizures, but IIRC there were at least two times in his life where he vomited so severely he threw his jaw out. He didn't understand what was happening and thougt he'd been poisoned, but modern doctors have indicated no poisons would have caused him to vomit like that and then be fine, which is what happened with him.

In fact, he once thought Emma had poisoned him with a cup of coffee, but later recanted. BY, who came to despise Emma, retold the story in Utah, that she had poisoned the prophet, when in fact, as mentioned above, it was impossible for her to have done so. Obviously she denied it.

So it is a medical mystery as to what caused him to have these severe vomiting episodes. Could they have connection to seizures? I'm not saying they do. Does anyone know if it is possible?

Mom

I don't know about seizures, but IIRC there were at least two times in his life where he vomited so severely he threw his jaw out. He didn't understand what was happening and thougt he'd been poisoned, but modern doctors have indicated no poisons would have caused him to vomit like that and then be fine, which is what happened with him.

In fact, he once thought Emma had poisoned him with a cup of coffee, but later recanted. BY, who came to despise Emma, retold the story in Utah, that she had poisoned the prophet, when in fact, as mentioned above, it was impossible for her to have done so. Obviously she denied it.

So it is a medical mystery as to what caused him to have these severe vomiting episodes. Could they be connected to seizures? I'm not saying they are. Does anyone know if it is possible?

Mom

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hello you guys!

ok, now i'm asking about joseph smith's seizures.. like did he get them before he recieved a revelation, or when did he get them?

please realize that i'm not asking this to offend mormons. like there have been times when i have asked before, nad mormons have denied that he got seizures, and said that i was critisizing them. but a prophet having seizures isn't wierd. Ezeikel had seizures!

so yeah, i was just wondering WHEN joseph smith got them. some say that that's the source of his revelations..

Hi thirdwatch512,

(Working from my online memory here...), I believe the epilepsy claim popped up in the early 1900's as a naturalistic explanation for Joseph's visions. If I remember correctly, it was Woodbridge Riley [sp?] that first made the claim, and it was subsequently picked up by other "critics" along the line. Later on (1930ish-1940ish), "critics" such as Harry Beardsley [sp?] and Fawn Brodie abandoned the epilepsy theory and provided new theories (such as Joseph being a conscious fraud or a paranoiac).

I'm by no means an expert, but I don't think there is enough (if any) evidence beyond his having visions to support claims that Joseph had seizures.

Do you have any evidence beyond his name being mentioned on wiki to support the claim?

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Think for a second, how can somebody have a vision, and yet the ones standing next to them doesn't?

From lightplanet:

On February 16, 1832, in an upper room of the Johnson home, while [Joseph] and Sidney Rigdon were examining the passage from John 5:29, they saw a multifaceted vision (D&C 76), commencing with a vision of the Father and the Son in the highest glory. This scene was followed by a series of visions, including Perdition and the sons of Perdition and then the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdoms of glory. One witness, Philo Dibble, present in the room recalled that the two men sat motionless for about an hour. One would say, "What do I see," and describe it, and the other would say, "I see the same"

I also recall hearing that Sidney was kind of shaken and weakened after going through this experience, while Joseph did not seem to be weakened at all. Joseph reportedly said something to the tune of "Sidney is not as used to it as I am" or something like that.

HSR

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jsxflvzklekkevkkgksdkbkbl;n;mn;;lmllmlmlmlmlm..... Sorry, I was having seizure -- turn that Pokemon show off, mama!

Seriously, I don't think Joseph Smith had seizures. For some people it's just too convenient of an explanation for experiences of Joseph Smith such as the First Vision where "thick darkness" gathered around Joseph, then he saw a great light, etc.

What next? Why is it not something that has been brought up a doezen years ago? Where is the references?

He didn't have seizures-- if he did, where is this information been stored over the last several hundred years?

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Temporal lobe epileptics (TLE) can be gradiose, extremely religious and philosophical. They are often very ill.

There is no reasonable evidence that Joseph Smith had any seizure disorder let alone T.L.E.

I think it is going beyond the available historical data to issue any form of psychiatric or neurological diagnosis for Joseph Smith.

Religious and philosophical may be stretching it a bit. Temporal lobe seizures can have various presentations. They were formerly known as absence seizures. The patient will simply stare into space for seconds or minutes, or experience unusual smells or visual disturbances. Other presentations are possible, but not as common.

The point of my post was to state that any suggestion that Joseph Smith experienced temporal lobe seizures is speculative and unsupported.

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The evidence for Joseph Smith's having seizures is as follows:

1. Joseph Smith claimed to have visions.

2. Sometimes people who have seizures claim to have visions.

3. Therefore Joseph Smith had seizures.

What more evidence do you need?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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The evidence for Joseph Smith's having seizures is as follows:

1. Joseph Smith claimed to have visions.

2. Sometimes people who have seizures claim to have visions.

3. Therefore Joseph Smith had seizures.

What more evidence do you need?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I'm sold.

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