How Can We Know When We Hear

[Neighbor]

Here's a good forinstance:

Anyone who believes and teaches of God the Father, and accepts the divinity of Christ, and of the Holy Ghost, teaches a plurality of Gods.

This was said by an LDS apostle. Most I know believe God is the power on high, the Holy Spirit is the agent of God whereby He convicts/excuses men of truth and leads in matters of salvation and both of these work in conjunction with the Word of God, which was manifest in the flesh as Jesus Christ - all the same God in three specific ways, but the same Person - "I Am That I Am". So to judge so broadly that 'anyone' who believes as claimed teaches a plurality of Gods is patently a false statement, more kindly put he has a limited and biased understanding and is perhaps vain in his own thinking.

[Freedom in Truth]

Freedom in Truth - If you could just catch a glimpse of the Infinite Holiness and Gloriousness and Majesty and Power and Wisdom of God you would not mix yourself up with Him.

Paul - Pfftt. Oh, please.

It is because I see how awesome and wonderful God is that I want to be like God, my brother.

... and I know God has made that possible for me.

Being like God and being a god are two different things. Can you see that they are different? I can aspire to being as loving as God is, etc. without thinking I can be a god like Him. We are two different Beings. Is an ant ever going to become a man?

Your god is a guy who earned his godhood. His god (his father) was a guy who earned his godhood. And his god (his father) was a guy who earned his godhood. And on and on and on. Each of them had their own world with their own spirit children. But you donâ??t know THE Beginning, THE Alpha - the "guy" who started it ALL (everything, all matter that exists).

I worship THE Alpha - the Being who created ALL. THE BEGINNING. He must be greater than the Father you worship because He had the power to begin everything. My God is the God of ALL WORLDS, ALL MATTER, ALL LIFE.

You may imagine that you can be one of the godhood guys. Can you imagine being THE BEGINNING - THE ENDING, and Creator and King of EVERYTHING THAT IS?

What do you have to offer that is better?

I canâ??t offer you godhood, specific rewards, your own world populated with your own spirit children. Are these things why you left the Church of Christ? Did you leave for your own glory and power?

Everyone searches for significance, Paul. Do you need to be a god to feel significant?

I offer you a Love from a Father that will fill every part of you with value and significance. I offer you freedom in Truth, and a Peace that transcends all understanding.

John 8:31-32 â??To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, â??If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.â??"

John 14:27 â??Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.â?

[Paul Ray]

Here's a good forinstance:

Anyone who believes and teaches of God the Father, and accepts the divinity of Christ, and of the Holy Ghost, teaches a plurality of Gods.

... OIOW, a plurality of God.

This was said by an LDS apostle.

Do you sustain that LDS apostle as a prophet of God?

I do. But that doesn't mean that I can't improve on his choice of words.

I am a prophet of God too.

... and the difference between me and an apostle is that I am not an apostle.

... at least not in the same sense in which the quorum of apostles are apostles.

But I am as much of a prophet as they are all prophets... in my own sphere of responsibility.

Most I know believe God is the power on high, the Holy Spirit is the agent of God whereby He convicts/excuses men of truth and leads in matters of salvation and both of these work in conjunction with the Word of God, which was manifest in the flesh as Jesus Christ - all the same God in three specific ways, but the same Person - "I Am That I Am".

Did you intend to put the word "not" in there somewhere?

Most I know believe there are 3 distinct persons and all 3 of those persons are God.

So to judge so broadly that 'anyone' who believes as claimed teaches a plurality of Gods is patently a false statement, more kindly put he has a limited and biased understanding and is perhaps vain in his own thinking.

I think it's usually an issue of semantics. I think Christians agree that 3 persons are God.

There's just something about an "s" on the end of the word "God" that stumps a lot of people.

[Freedom in Truth]

BTW, please show me support of exaltation from the BoM. I want to see specific verses on godhood, progression, earning salvation, having your own world, spirit children, etc. I want to see verses that contain the information â??plainlyâ? please.

Then please explain why the early church fathers did not specially guard this precious information with their lives.

[Paul Ray]

BTW, please show me support of exaltation from the BoM. I want to see specific verses on godhood, progression, earning salvation, having your own world, spirit children, etc. I want to see verses that contain the information â??plainlyâ? please.

I would rather teach you how to be a fisherman (of men) than continue to keep giving you fish.

Here's the link to our scriptures and some study helps: http://scriptures.lds.org/

Try using the Topical Guide and Dictionary while focusing on the issues you want to learn about.

Disclaimer: The words of all men are subject to the judgment of God, and you can know the truth for yourself by asking God to help guide you so that you will know the truth when you see it.

Then please explain why the early church fathers did not specially guard this precious information with their lives.

Huh? What do you think they should have been guarding?

Nobody in the world can keep us from knowing God, personally.

... and when we know God we can know the truth for ourselves.

[Freedom in Truth]

What do you think of when you think of being "saved"?

What are you being saved from, exactly?

â??Salvationâ? allows us to be in Godâ??s presence. Sin cannot be in Godâ??s presence - salvation gives us forgiveness for our sins and provides us with a righteousness (right standing) so we can have a relationship with God.

I am saved from my sins that keep me apart from God. My sins have been forgiven so I can now walk with God.

Who else would you rather be like than God?

Being like God and being God (a god like God) are not the same. Do you get your truth from Satan?

Genesis 3:5 â??For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. â??

You said Satan wants to harm our progression, yet he tells us we can be gods? I would think he wouldnâ??t mention it, wouldnâ??t you?

What God is better than the God I worship?

A God who will teach you healing and freeing Truth. A God who selflessly loves you. A God who died to free you for relationship with Him by forgiving ALL your sins.

... and btw, worship is a form of emulation.

Iâ??m not seeing that.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&def...on&ct=title

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Aworship

QUOTE - Freedom in Truth

But you have smallified Him and exalted yourself (remember the ant story?) You live in a cave and think the sun is the beam of a flashlight, and you won't follow someone out of the cave and look at the real, beautiful, radiant, colorful, warm SUN.

Paul - Sounds like what you are doing to me.

I am using the sun to represent God - you are using the sun to represent yourself. You often seem to be thinking of yourself. Iâ??m thinking about God.

Have you read through the Bible? How have you missed the zillions of passages that communicate the differences between men and God and how weâ??re never going to be equal with Him? Try Job. Try the Psalms. (just two suggestions)

You seem to think God can't help you become like God... as if that is something God simply can't do.

Maybe being a god is not my purpose. Maybe being a god is not what would be good for me.

And IF I am meant to be a god (hypothetically speaking) I donâ??t think God would tell me. If I am obeying and loving Him to earn godhood then I am not obeying and loving freely and selflessly. To do good to earn a reward changes the whole act - my motivation is totally corrupted. I am being good to get. Itâ??s all about me - I am imprisoned in myself instead of being set free.

[TrashcanMan79]

BTW, please show me support of exaltation from the BoM. I want to see specific verses on godhood, progression, earning salvation, having your own world, spirit children, etc. I want to see verses that contain the information â??plainlyâ? please.

If exaltation is not taught in the Book of Mormon, what difference does it make? Not all LDS doctrines are in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is not the only book of scripture for Mormons.

What is your point?

[Freedom in Truth]

Freedom in Truth - BTW, please show me support of exaltation from the BoM. I want to see specific verses on godhood, progression, earning salvation, having your own world, spirit children, etc. I want to see verses that contain the information â??plainlyâ? please.

Paul - I would rather teach you how to be a fisherman (of men) than continue to keep giving you fish.

Here's the link to our scriptures and some study helps: http://scriptures.lds.org/

Try using the Topical Guide and Dictionary while focusing on the issues you want to learn about.

I knew you would say this. Iâ??ve been to your Topical Guide and Dictionary already. From my point of view, there are no verses - the information is not there, and if it is it requires interpretation and is not â??plainâ?.

I cannot help but think when you wonâ??t show me verses yourself it is because you canâ??t. I donâ??t want to think this, but itâ??s hard to come up with another reason. Jesus discipled (taught) his disciples, and He didnâ??t tell them to just go off by themselves and pray to God for answers. And His disciples did the same. Your method isnâ??t scriptural.

You donâ??t have plain verses, do you?

Disclaimer: The words of all men are subject to the judgment of God, and you can know the truth for yourself by asking God to help guide you so that you will know the truth when you see it.

JS was supposed to be the prophet who restored truth. Restored truth should be in his writings. If we didnâ??t need JS because we have God to guide us, then what was the point of JS â??restoring truthâ? and writing the BoM, the D&C, and the PoGP?? All JS needed to do was tell everyone to pray to God and ask God their questions.

Freedom in Truth - Then please explain why the early church fathers did not specially guard this precious information with their lives.

Paul - Huh? What do you think they should have been guarding?

Nobody in the world can keep us from knowing God, personally.

... and when we know God we can know the truth for ourselves.

JS said â??plain and preciousâ? truth had been lost because of â??ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priestsâ? committing many errors. Sounds like JS felt people couldnâ??t know truth, and thatâ??s why he â??restored truthâ?. If nobody in the world can keep us from knowing God then people should have been able to know God before JS, and JSâ??s work was not needed.

[Paul Ray]

â??Salvationâ? allows us to be in Godâ??s presence. Sin cannot be in Godâ??s presence - salvation gives us forgiveness for our sins and provides us with a righteousness (right standing) so we can have a relationship with God.

I am saved from my sins that keep me apart from God. My sins have been forgiven so I can now walk with God.

That's true, insofar as it goes. I'm simply trying to tell you there is more to the story.

Being like God and being God (a god like God) are not the same.

In a sense, yes, and in another sense, no, depending on how you interpret or define the word "God".

Being like God our Father and being God our Father are not the same.

I agree with that statement, and I also agree with this statement:

Being like God all the persons who are Divine, in whose form and image we were created, and being God, another one of the persons who are Divine, in whose form and image we were created, are the same... if we are indeed exactly like God.

... and that's what the atonement of Jesus Christ can do for us.

Do you get your truth from Satan?

No. Why do you ask?

Genesis 3:5 â??For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. â??

Big surprise! Satan told a half-truth to Adam and Eve.

If you'll read a little more, you will see that God said that Adam and Eve did become like God.

The lie in Satan's half-truth was in telling them that they wouldn't die.

You said Satan wants to harm our progression, yet he tells us we can be gods?

Well, at least he told Adam and Eve they could be gods.

And you know, now that I think about it, that was probably another misperception.

I think it would have been more truthful to say they would have become even more like God.

In a sense, they were already gods... just as we are, if you understand what I mean.

I would think he wouldnâ??t mention it, wouldnâ??t you?

I think Satan is smart enough to know we will hear true information from someone, so, knowing that, I think his goal is to help us form misunderstandings.

A God who will teach you healing and freeing Truth. A God who selflessly loves you. A God who died to free you for relationship with Him by forgiving ALL your sins.

Yep. That sounds like the God I know.

Iâ??m not seeing that.

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not true.

I am using the sun to represent God - you are using the sun to represent yourself.

No I'm not. I'm using the sun to represent what I can become with God's help.

You seem to only want to try to tell me that I'm a natural man with no hope of becoming like God.

You often seem to be thinking of yourself. Iâ??m thinking about God.

See above.

Have you read through the Bible?

Yes, several times.

How have you missed the zillions of passages that communicate the differences between men and God and how weâ??re never going to be equal with Him?

I know there are passages that communicate the differences between men and God... that part is true.

But I know of no passages that communicate how we're never going to be equal with God... that is a lie.

... although, if it isn't intentional, it is simply a misunderstanding.

Try Job. Try the Psalms. (just two suggestions)

I think you're trying to suggest the idea that I need to accept your interpretation of the scriptures.

Maybe being a god is not my purpose. Maybe being a god is not what would be good for me.

Would you say the same if you substituted the phrase "being a god" for the phrase "becoming like God"?

Do you think maybe that would not be good for you?

IF I am meant to be a god (hypothetically speaking) I donâ??t think God would tell me. If I am obeying and loving Him to earn godhood then I am not obeying and loving freely and selflessly. To do good to earn a reward changes the whole act - my motivation is totally corrupted. I am being good to get. Itâ??s all about me - I am imprisoned in myself instead of being set free.

There's nothing wrong with having a goal and working toward it.

And there's nothing wrong with following God because God promises that if we follow Him, He will reward us.

You might think it is more noble to follow God without having any goals, but I do not agree with that idea.

I think it is wonderful that God promises so much to those who will choose to follow Him.

[Freedom in Truth]

If exaltation is not taught in the Book of Mormon, what difference does it make? Not all LDS doctrines are in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is not the only book of scripture for Mormons.

What is your point?

This doctrine seems to be of utmost importance. It is what Mormonism "offered" Paul when he was a member of the Church of Christ. It is apparently not in the Bible because of corruption. So since it is so important and since it seems that it used to be plainly in the Bible, I would think it would be in the BoM as well. If the BoM did not restore important doctrines then was it really necessary to have? (History is interesting and nice, but I did not think restoring interesting history was JS's purpose.)

[Paul Ray]

I knew you would say this. Iâ??ve been to your Topical Guide and Dictionary already. From my point of view, there are no verses - the information is not there, and if it is it requires interpretation and is not â??plainâ?.

Okay, I'll play along with you some more. I think I've already walked at least a dozen miles with you, so what is a few more.

Pick one or two ideas you would like to see supported by some scripture, and I will find some scripture for you that will support those ideas. I don't have forever to spend with you now, though, so try to keep your ideas simple, instead of making some big idea with several ideas in it.

For example, if you want to see some scriptural support for the idea that we can become like God and receive all that God has, just say that. And btw, I can easily find some support for those ideas... even if I limit myself to using only the Holy Bible.

I cannot help but think when you wonâ??t show me verses yourself it is because you canâ??t.

Try giving me just a tiny little bit of credit, would you? I have scriptural support for ALL of my beliefs.

I donâ??t want to think this, but itâ??s hard to come up with another reason.

I can't imagine why, unless it's just so irresistable to think that I am a really stupid person.

You sound like just another one of those people who won't give us "Mormons" any credit.

Jesus discipled (taught) his disciples, and He didnâ??t tell them to just go off by themselves and pray to God for answers.

... maybe because he already knew they knew the value of prayer, maybe?

If they learned by his example I'm sure they knew he was praying often.

I usually tell people to ask God only when it seems that they really haven't been.

And His disciples did the same. Your method isnâ??t scriptural.

I think it's just not according to your interpretation of the scriptures.

You donâ??t have plain verses, do you?

I have books that are full of them.

JS was supposed to be the prophet who restored truth. Restored truth should be in his writings. If we didnâ??t need JS because we have God to guide us, then what was the point of JS â??restoring truthâ? and writing the BoM, the D&C, and the PoGP??

To record what God revealed through Joseph, of course.

And when I receive truths, I often write those truths down too.

All JS needed to do was tell everyone to pray to God and ask God their questions.

You seem to think he couldn't do both.

JS said â??plain and preciousâ? truth had been lost because of â??ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priestsâ? committing many errors. Sounds like JS felt people couldnâ??t know truth, and thatâ??s why he â??restored truthâ?.

It may sound that way to you, but I think Joseph was simply saying that people had taken away from the truths we (all people in general) once had at one time from God's revelations.

If nobody in the world can keep us from knowing God then people should have been able to know God before JS, and JSâ??s work was not needed.

Do you know God?

Do you know everything that God knows?

I think you are only asking God certain questions, and not thinking about other things.

I think everyone has their own questions to ask God about, and together we can learn more, collectively.

... kinda like how you might study advanced ideas of Geometry while I study advanced ideas of Physics.

If you tell me what you know, and I tell you what I know, we can both learn what both of us know.

... and, of course, we can always double-check and verify all our answers with God.

[TrashcanMan79]

It is apparently not in the Bible because of corruption.

The idea of deification is not in the Bible?

I would think it would be in the BoM as well.

Why?

If the BoM did not restore important doctrines then was it really necessary to have?

Do we really need the Song of Solomon? How about the Book of Ruth? Are all three of John's epistles really necessary? Surely the Gospel of Mark doesn't have anything necessary to add over Matthew and Luke, right? What scripture do you count as 'really necessary to have'?

[Freedom in Truth]

The test will test the degree of faithfulness in our relationhip to God.

What do and will you do to show your true love for God?

God sees my heart. He knows me inside and out. Good works flow from my relationship with God but God doesnâ??t have to look at them for proof because He can see their source - my heart.

Good works might show other people that I have a relationship with God, but then again they really donâ??t for sure. As we have said, people can do good works for all sorts of reasons other than that they are faithful to God. Atheists do good works.

And, someone who is tops in faithfulness to God may not have many good works at all, for various reasons. God doesnâ??t â??test usâ? to find out something He doesnâ??t know. He knows all.

[Paul Ray]

What scripture do you count as 'really necessary to have'?

Oh, that's an easy one... only those in the Holy Bible.

... according to his way of thinking, anyway.

I think I know him at least that well.

[Paul Ray]

God sees my heart. He knows me inside and out. Good works flow from my relationship with God but God doesnâ??t have to look at them for proof because He can see their source - my heart.

Good works might show other people that I have a relationship with God, but then again they really donâ??t for sure. As we have said, people can do good works for all sorts of reasons other than that they are faithful to God. Atheists do good works.

And, someone who is tops in faithfulness to God may not have many good works at all, for various reasons. God doesnâ??t â??test usâ? to find out something He doesnâ??t know. He knows all.

I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some of what you say.

Do you think you can do anything to convince me you are 100% correct?

I don't think so. And I don't think I can convince you that I am 100% correct, either.

... and yet we both believe our heart is right with God.

... or at least I think you do.

... I know that I do.

I believe God is helping me know everything that I know to be true.

So where do we go from here?

... according to your way of thinking?

I know what I think, but what do you think?

Who do you think is the best source for all of our good ideas and knowledge?

[Freedom in Truth]

I think you mixing a lot of truths with untruths, and I don't believe you are intending to do that.

No, I do intend what I say.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is in effect a sub-group with God's authorized representatives who are authorized to teach absolutely everyone everything God has revealed and will now reveal to all of us on this planet, collectively... just like the apostles who lived in and soon after the days of our Lord's mortal ministry were a sub-group authorized to teach all people in their day. Our Lord didn't pick 12 apostles to teach just some of the people who were living on this planet then. He authorized 12 apostles to go teach the whole world... and he told the 12 apostles he chose on the American continent (another sub-group) that they were subject to those 12 apostles in the Jerusalem area.

Then why donâ??t you show me scriptural support for topics â??God has revealedâ??

... and btw, everything taught by the true church of Jesus Christ was and still is in agreement, although some of the rules do not apply to us. For example, the people of God (church) back in Mose's day (another sub-group) were told to offer animal sacrifices, and today we are told to no longer do that.

I'm not sure JS knew about the sacrifice thing, but that's for the Occult thread.

I don't think your teachings agree with all the teachings your church has taught in the past. I KNOW Mormons don't agree with each other! There are even different â??Mormonâ? â??denominationsâ??.

[Paul Ray]

The idea of deification is not in the Bible?

Why?

Do we really need the Song of Solomon? How about the Book of Ruth? Are all three of John's epistles really necessary? Surely the Gospel of Mark doesn't have anything necessary to add over Matthew and Luke, right? What scripture do you count as 'really necessary to have'?

Have you seen the movies, or read the books, about the Work and the Glory, TrashCanMan?

You remind me of the father figure who was standing up for the principles we believe in... and he wasn't a member of the Church because he didn't agree what what we believe.

Let me know when you have your baptism date set, would you?

... I would like to be with you when that happens... if not physically, at least in spirit.

[Freedom in Truth]

God can always give us more wisdom to help us.

An ant will never understand all a human can understand. God did not create an ant to be a human. I can be the wisest I can be and still barely scratch the surface of Godâ??s Infinite Wisdom.

Yes, but since I believe they are all good reasons they are only helping to make the picture better.

No, it changes your motivation to self-serving instead of selflessness. You are out for #1, just like so many other Americans. Mormonism is truly an American religion.

QUOTE - Freedom in Truth

Satan is not Godâ??s opposite, nor is he Christâ??s opposite.

Paul - It's Good vs Evil. Think again.

Good verses Evil doesnâ??t mean the two sides are equal. God has no equal. But I guess in Mormonism He does.

Doesn't care about us? Then why doesn't he just leave us alone? I think he is very interested in our eternal progression, and he wants us to go a certain way.

He doesnâ??t care about our well-being. Apparently you think he does.

That doesn't sound like someone who just doesn't care about us, to me.

And btw, you would hear a different story from Satan, if you asked him, personally.

I believe all your views are biased. In a sense, you are prejudiced.

We just happen to both agree it is better to follow God.

Hmmm . . . it does sound like something Satan might do - convince people that heâ??s not SO evil. Have you read â??The Screwtape Lettersâ??

Freedom in Truth - Yes - he deceives people and wants them to believe he is God.

Paul - ... and.... say it with me, now... he also tells people that only he can be God.

Oh Paul, I am so sorry.

[Paul Ray]

No, I do intend what I say.

I know you intend to say what you say.

I was saying that I don't think you intend to mix truths with untruths.

Then why donâ??t you show me scriptural support for topics â??God has revealedâ??

Why do I have to show you? Can you read for yourself?

The standard works are very easily accessible... if nothing else you can read them online.

I'm not sure JS knew about the sacrifice thing, but that's for the Occult thread.

I was talking about the principle behind it.

I don't think your teachings agree with all the teachings your church has taught in the past.

I think that would depend upon your interpretations... and my interpretation of what you just said.

I KNOW Mormons don't agree with each other!

I do too. But we do have leaders who have established and will clarify our doctrines.

... it is always best to appeal to the authorities for our answers.

There are even different â??Mormonâ? â??denominationsâ??.

Not in our Church, they're aren't... at least not by the common definition of "denominations".

We have many ward and branches, but we are all one Church, together.

If you're referring to RLDS, or CoC, those are organizations which aren't a part of our Church.

[Freedom in Truth]

So, yes, I will love God and follow Him no matter what.

I will give up all I have if God asks me to do that.

I donâ??t need promises of rewards or godhood or mansions or authority or ANYTHING to worship Him and follow Him.

I would just need to know it was and is God who was and is speaking to me, personally.

... and since I know I can have that, and I do in fact have that, I will do and believe anything that God tells me.

... or at least I'll give it my best shot, and keep on trying until I get it all down.

How did I do, brother?

You did fine, but it wasnâ??t a test. I pray you mean what you say.

QUOTE

Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things that a man needs

to believe in the most.

That people are basically good;

that honour...courage and virtue mean everything;

that power and money, money and power, mean nothing;

that good always triumphs over evil;

and I want you to remember this,

that love... true love... never dies.

You remember that, boy.

You remember that.

Doesn't matter if it's true or not. You see,

a man should believe in those things, because...

those are the things worth believing in.

Havenâ??t seen the movie, but things are only worth believing BECAUSE theyâ??re true.

[Freedom in Truth]

Yeah Baby!!!! I get to make the 700th post! Whoo Hoo!!!! While adding absolutely nothing to the discussion. Sorry Mods but I couldn't resist

Congrats to you!! You win a NEW, Electric Mixer!!

[Paul Ray]

An ant will never understand all a human can understand. God did not create an ant to be a human. I can be the wisest I can be and still barely scratch the surface of Godâ??s Infinite Wisdom.

You're presupposing that we (men and women) aren't all a part of the same "species" with God.

From the scriptures we are told that men and women were created in the form and image of God.

We aren't told that God created men and woman as a species different than him.

We are told that everything was created after its own kind.

No, it changes your motivation to self-serving instead of selflessness. You are out for #1, just like so many other Americans. Mormonism is truly an American religion.

You can't take yourself out of the equation no matter what you do, my brother.

You are the person who does what you do, even if you allow God to work through you.

Good verses Evil doesnâ??t mean the two sides are equal.

I didn't say it did. I said they were opposites. You were saying they weren't.

God has no equal. But I guess in Mormonism He does.

God is equal with God, and there are at least 3 persons who are God.

He doesnâ??t care about our well-being. Apparently you think he does.

I was saying that he is interested in us. I didn't say he has "good" intentions.

But to Satan his intentions are the best intentions he can imagine. He thinks it is good to oppose God.

Hmmm . . . it does sound like something Satan might do - convince people that heâ??s not SO evil. Have you read â??The Screwtape Lettersâ??

No. Are they any good?

... psst... and notice... it is YOU I am asking.

I think that's funny.

Oh Paul, I am so sorry.

I forgive you.

[Paul Ray]

Congrats to you!! You win a NEW, Electric Mixer!!

Awwhh. I wanted that.

...

Can I borrow it?

[Paul Ray]

You did fine, but it wasnâ??t a test. I pray you mean what you say.

I do.

I'm not perfect, yet, but I'll keep trying.

Havenâ??t seen the movie, but things are only worth believing BECAUSE theyâ??re true.

Sometimes a person might only have hope to hang onto.

[Freedom in Truth]

The idea of deification is not in the Bible?

Deification of who? God? Man?

Do we really need the Song of Solomon? How about the Book of Ruth? Are all three of John's epistles really necessary? Surely the Gospel of Mark doesn't have anything necessary to add over Matthew and Luke, right? What scripture do you count as 'really necessary to have'?

That's not what I said, TCM. I am specifically talking about exaltation. Isn't it an important "restored truth"? I can understand that a Mormon wouldn't think it was clearly in the Bible because a Mormon believes the Bible text was mucked up. But why wouldn't it be in the BoM?

If JS's mission/purpose was to restore truths then shouldn't they be in the BoM? Wouldn't these truths be a part of the people's lives in the BoM? If they're not there, then why was it important to give us the BoM? It's not like it was already around and people decided to include it in their scriptures. Specific effort was involved in making sure we had the BoM . . . why?