"Nemo the Mormon" Speaking Out (Again)

[california boy]

11 hours ago, smac97 said:

They are not asked to subvert parents.

No.  You are telling falsehoods.  You are bearing false witness.  Missionaries are not instructed to subvert parents.

Thanks,

-Smac

The WHOLE point of missionary work is to get people to abandon their church and join the LDS church.  Missionaries are not required to ask parents of youth permission to present their discussions.  

Show me in the handbook or anywhere else where missionaries are required to notify parents before teaching the youth the discussions.

And QUIT calling me a liar.  Look in the mirror.  You will find a person who can not support his assertion that parents are required to be notified before youth can be taught.

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, california boy said:

The WHOLE point of missionary work is to get people to abandon their church and join the LDS church.  Missionaries are not required to ask parents of youth permission to present their discussions.  

Show me in the handbook or anywhere else where missionaries are required to notify parents before teaching the youth the discussions.

And QUIT calling me a liar.  Look in the mirror.  You will find a person who can not support his assertion that parents are required to be notified before youth can be taught.

It looks like according to the church handbook that Missionaries are not required to get parental consent to teach or speak to minors about the gospel. Of course they must have parental consent to baptize them.

Nowhere are Missionaries instructed to subvert parents. 

Edited 18 hours ago by bluebell

[Notatbm]

22 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It looks like according to the church handbook that Missionaries are not required to get parental consent to teach or speak to minors about the gospel. Of course they must have parental consent to baptize them.

Nowhere are Missionaries instructed to subvert parents. 

Missionaries are not instructed to subvert parents authority. BUT by not mandating parent approval prior to discussions the church takes away that parent’s choice as to whether their child receives religious lessons from missionaries. By taking that choice away…. That subverts the parent’s ability to object until they find out the missionaries are trying to convince their kiddo to join their church. 
 

“carefully worded denials”  comes to mind

 

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Jay 4 Christ said:

It's way more than other religions including Christianity not having a licensed bus driver.

On an individual basis, everyone here on earth that isn't a member of the restored gospel will go to hell. You may not like that wording but it's true according to how Hell is defined on the LDS website. 

In the Mormon spirit world, Christians are assigned to Spirit Prison/Hell after death with all the other religions and atheist. One of the main requirements for entrance into Spirit Paradise is baptism, isn't that true? 

That's why I'm confused about how modern Mormonism views Christianity! Your doctrine teaches that all Christians that are not part of the restored gospel end up in hell, but for some reason while here on earth Mormons want to be considered part of Christianity. 

Can you provide the references you are using?  That would make it easier to have a discussion.  

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Missionaries are not instructed to subvert parents authority. BUT by not mandating parent approval prior to discussions the church takes away that parent’s choice as to whether their child receives religious lessons from missionaries. By taking that choice away…. That subverts the parent’s ability to object until they find out the missionaries are trying to convince their kiddo to join their church. 
 

“carefully worded denials”  comes to mind

 

Yes, if there was someone who was determined to subvert a parents authority they could probably do it and not technically be breaking any rules, but it wouldn't do them any good  What would be the point?  They couldn't baptize the minors and most leaders would be the kibosh on it as soon as they found out since the handbook also says that parents should know what their children are learning about.

In the past there were missions that did some unethical (and non doctrinal) things with baptism and I'm so glad the church has put a stop to it.  I've never known of a missionary that was teaching minors that didn't go out of their way to involve the parents as much as they could.

[Notatbm]

31 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Yes, if there was someone who was determined to subvert a parents authority they could probably do it and not technically be breaking any rules, but it wouldn't do them any good  What would be the point?  They couldn't baptize the minors and most leaders would be the kibosh on it as soon as they found out since the handbook also says that parents should know what their children are learning about.

In the past there were missions that did some unethical (and non doctrinal) things with baptism and I'm so glad the church has put a stop to it.  I've never known of a missionary that was teaching minors that didn't go out of their way to involve the parents as much as they could.

Agreed… just saying the church doesn’t explicitly teach the missionaries NOT to do it except for the baptism part.. 

baseball baptisms were a messy gift that keeps on giving. 

[Calm]

9 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

We just simply see the other bus drivers not having the state issued license

I would say we see the bus drivers as having local and country wide licenses, but not international.  

[Calm]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Yes, if there was someone who was determined to subvert a parents authority they could probably do it and not technically be breaking any rules, but it wouldn't do them any good  What would be the point?  They couldn't baptize the minors and most leaders would be the kibosh on it as soon as they found out since the handbook also says that parents should know what their children are learning about.

In the past there were missions that did some unethical (and non doctrinal) things with baptism and I'm so glad the church has put a stop to it.  I've never known of a missionary that was teaching minors that didn't go out of their way to involve the parents as much as they could.

In fact, the emphasis has been teaching as families as more likely to  baptized iirc, definitely more likely to stay active if converting as a family.

[Calm]

8 hours ago, webbles said:

A Christian is someone who is trying to follow Christ to the best of their abilities.

Or just someone who believes in Christ and sees themselves as Christian.  There may be some who believe and identify as such, but who aren’t that committed to living his commandments or learning his teachings.  Though perhaps that is them trying to follow to the best of their abilities.  Hard to know since we can’t pry open skulls to see thoughts yet.  

[Calm]

10 hours ago, Jay 4 Christ said:

You may not like that wording but it's true according to how Hell is defined on the LDS website. 

In the Mormon spirit world, Christians are assigned to Spirit Prison/Hell after death with all the other religions and atheist.

We are not that consistent with our language unfortunately.  Sometimes Spirit Prison is labeled as part of Hell, sometimes hell is labeled as part of Spirit Prison.  The latter makes more sense to me given the traditional understanding of hell as a place of suffering.  

Posting yet again to be ignored….

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

Quote

The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell.

The point is people aren’t suffering in Spirit Prison just because of incorrect beliefs.  They are there learning.  

Only the unrepentant suffer for their sins.

PS:  this is the revised manual they interrupted the prophet series for a year or two in RS/PH when it was released.  I trust its precision more than online material that I don’t know the provenance of (I trust the stuff I know has gone through a thorough review, but some stuff has not been introduced when posted, so still official, I just don’t rate it as high on the “approaching Mormon doctrine” scale).

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

Edited 12 hours ago by Calm