Prepare Ye for the Coming of the Bridegroom

[telnetd]

Come Follow Me is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 133-134 this week.

A few questions about section 133 and 134.

Joseph claimed to have received a revelation about the time before the Second Coming of
Christ.  He reported that God said believers would need to gather out of all nations and 
come to the land of Zion (verses 7-16).  It's also confirmed in the Introduction - "All men
are commanded to flee from Babylon, come to Zion, and prepare for the great day of 
the Lord".

There is one exception - some are not initially commanded to go to Zion.

"Wherefore, prepare ye, prepare ye, O my people; sanctify yourselves; gather ye together, 
O ye people of my church, upon the land of Zion, all you that have not been commanded to 
tarry".

Is this land of Zion Missouri or all of America as Joseph Smith taught?  Why not gather
to Europe or Australia before the Second Coming?

In the Second Coming, will Christ stand upon upon "the mount of Olivet, and upon the 
mighty ocean, even the great deep, and upon the islands of the sea, and upon the land 
of Zion"?

What is the land of Zion in that verse (20)?  Will he physically stand on all those
other destinations?

Another verse says "And the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back 
into their own place, and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was 
divided".

What is the land of Zion in that verse (24)?

Doctrine and Covenants 101:77-80 mentions the Lord established the Constitution to maintain
the rights and protection of all flesh according to just and holy principles.

In Doctrine and Covenants 134:12, why would LDS missionaries choose not preach the gospel 
to slaves when the early disciples did not need to seek permission from Roman masters?  
Paul even preached to Roman soldiers. 

[teddyaware]

3 hours ago, telnetd said:

Come Follow Me is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 133-134 this week.

A few questions about section 133 and 134.

Joseph claimed to have received a revelation about the time before the Second Coming of
Christ.  He reported that God said believers would need to gather out of all nations and 
come to the land of Zion (verses 7-16).  It's also confirmed in the Introduction - "All men
are commanded to flee from Babylon, come to Zion, and prepare for the great day of 
the Lord".

There is one exception - some are not initially commanded to go to Zion.

"Wherefore, prepare ye, prepare ye, O my people; sanctify yourselves; gather ye together, 
O ye people of my church, upon the land of Zion, all you that have not been commanded to 
tarry".

Is this land of Zion Missouri or all of America as Joseph Smith taught?  Why not gather
to Europe or Australia before the Second Coming?

In the Second Coming, will Christ stand upon upon "the mount of Olivet, and upon the 
mighty ocean, even the great deep, and upon the islands of the sea, and upon the land 
of Zion"?

What is the land of Zion in that verse (20)?  Will he physically stand on all those
other destinations?

Another verse says "And the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back 
into their own place, and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was 
divided".

What is the land of Zion in that verse (24)?

Doctrine and Covenants 101:77-80 mentions the Lord established the Constitution to maintain
the rights and protection of all flesh according to just and holy principles.

In Doctrine and Covenants 134:12, why would LDS missionaries choose not preach the gospel 
to slaves when the early disciples did not need to seek permission from Roman masters?  
Paul even preached to Roman soldiers. 

The center stake of Zion (the capital) is located in the region roundabout Independence Missouri. The worldwide stakes of Zion (the connected worldwide extensions of Zion) are prophesied in the Book of Mormon to be all over the face of the earth prior to and during the time of the Second Coming.

12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw. (1 Nephi 14)

Edited November 18, 2025 by teddyaware

[Pyreaux]

4 hours ago, telnetd said:

Come Follow Me is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 133-134 this week.

A few questions about section 133 and 134.

Joseph claimed to have received a revelation about the time before the Second Coming of
Christ.  He reported that God said believers would need to gather out of all nations and 
come to the land of Zion (verses 7-16).  It's also confirmed in the Introduction - "All men
are commanded to flee from Babylon, come to Zion, and prepare for the great day of 
the Lord".

There is one exception - some are not initially commanded to go to Zion.

"Wherefore, prepare ye, prepare ye, O my people; sanctify yourselves; gather ye together, 
O ye people of my church, upon the land of Zion, all you that have not been commanded to 
tarry".

Is this land of Zion Missouri or all of America as Joseph Smith taught?  Why not gather
to Europe or Australia before the Second Coming?

In the Second Coming, will Christ stand upon upon "the mount of Olivet, and upon the 
mighty ocean, even the great deep, and upon the islands of the sea, and upon the land 
of Zion"?

What is the land of Zion in that verse (20)?  Will he physically stand on all those
other destinations?

Another verse says "And the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back 
into their own place, and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was 
divided".

What is the land of Zion in that verse (24)?

Doctrine and Covenants 101:77-80 mentions the Lord established the Constitution to maintain
the rights and protection of all flesh according to just and holy principles.

In Doctrine and Covenants 134:12, why would LDS missionaries choose not preach the gospel 
to slaves when the early disciples did not need to seek permission from Roman masters?  
Paul even preached to Roman soldiers. 

The Land of Zion in D&C 133:7-16 is an initial Gathering to Missouri. The center stake of Zion was Independence, Jackson County, Missouri (D&C 57:3). This was the focal point of the "land of Zion" referenced in many early revelations, including D&C 133.

There is later a broader sense of all of America as the Stakes of Zion. Joseph Smith later taught that the entire continent of North and South America was the "Land of Zion." The idea since evolved.

Later, as the Church grew globally, the gathering was modified by prophetic direction in the mid-20th century. The gathering now occurs primarily to the local Stakes of Zion wherever members live worldwide, meaning they build up the Church in their own countries. They no longer need to physically move to the American Midwest. We "flee from Babylon" (spiritual wickedness) and gather to the nearest Stake of Zion.

Christ's Second Coming and Zion in D&C 133:20 mentions Christ standing "upon the mount of Olivet, and upon the mighty ocean, even the great deep, and upon the islands of the sea, and upon the land of Zion."

It is taught that Christ will physically stand upon the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, fulfilling prophecy (Zechariah 14:4). The mention of the ocean, islands, and the land of Zion (Missouri/America) indicates the scope. His coming will be a worldwide event that everyone witnesses, not confined to one place. The references emphasize that his power and presence will be felt across the entire globe, manifesting in various promised locations; Zion, Jerusalem and on the sea and islands. The "land of Zion" here is the promised place in America.

The Lands of Zion and Jerusalem in D&C 133:24 refers to a geological miracle that will occur before the Second Coming. The land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion (America) will be "turned back into their own place" to prepare the earth "like as it was in the days before it was divided."

In this context, the land of Zion is the American continent, just as the land of Jerusalem is the traditional Holy Land. This prophecy refers to the reuniting of the landmasses of the earth to their original, pre-Pangaea state, often interpreted as the physical state of the earth that existed prior to the division of the earth in the days of Peleg (Genesis 10:25, though the how and when of that division is a matter of scriptural interpretation).

Concerning D&C 134 and Missionary work to slaves, D&C 101:77-80 confirms the belief that the Constitution of the United States was divinely inspired to secure the rights and protection of all people, religious freedom being paramount.

D&C 134:12 is part of a declaration written in 1835 by a general assembly of the Church and later canonized, addresses the Church's stance on governments and laws, specifically in relation to slavery, which was a deeply divisive issue in the US.

"We do not believe it right to interfere with bond-servants, neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters, nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be uneasy, or exercise an influence, to the injury of their masters."

Context of 1835 this declaration was a statement of political neutrality and an attempt to avoid provoking mob violence.

In 1835, many US states had laws that made it illegal to educate slaves or preach to them in a way that might encourage rebellion or discontent. Preaching to slaves against the master's will would have been an act of civil disobedience that could have led to immediate, violent expulsion of the Saints from states like Missouri (which they were already experiencing).

The Church was focused on survival, gathering to Zion, and building temples, and sought to demonstrate its loyalty to the law.

Early Disciples and Paul situations are not fully analogous.

Roman Law: While Paul preached to Roman soldiers and people of all statuses, the laws regarding slavery and the relationship between the Church and the Empire were different. Early Christians in the Roman Empire were a persecuted minority but were not operating under the immediate threat of mob violence from local authorities for legally defined "incitement" of chattel property, as the Saints were in the US.

The declaration reflects a principle of respect for agency and avoiding unnecessary contention that would damage the Church's ability to operate. It was a pragmatic statement intended to protect the members and the Church's legal standing while confirming the general principle of respect for law. It did not endorse slavery as a practice but rather advised against unlawful interference that could lead to harm.

[The Nehor]

Wait, you want me to spend all night outside waiting with a lamp and I have to acquire and conserve my own power source for the lights because someone doesn’t know how to plan and schedule an event? All this so I can go to a wedding….one of the most boring social events humanity has ever devised?

I think I will go inside and go to bed instead.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

one of the most boring social events humanity has ever devised?

You are thinking American style weddings…there must be some wedding traditions that are fun for all involved ( the chaste bride waiting in her room to be ravished by the groom once he’s finished getting drunk with his friends and family never appealed to me, but there must be something out there).

I have always wondered if Jewish traditional weddings were fun as they get portrayed as everyone dancing the Hora (which I got to do something like it in junior high iirc and had lots of fun) while lifting the bride and groom up on chairs…

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

You are thinking American style weddings…there must be some wedding traditions that are fun for all involved ( the chaste bride waiting in her room to be ravished by the groom once he’s finished getting drunk with his friends and family never appealed to me, but there must be something out there).

I have always wondered if Jewish traditional weddings were fun as they get portrayed as everyone dancing the Hora (which I got to do something like it in junior high iirc and had lots of fun) while lifting the bride and groom up on chairs…

I’ve been to fun weddings but they are few and far between.

[telnetd]

On 11/18/2025 at 5:15 PM, Pyreaux said:

Later, as the Church grew globally, the gathering was modified by prophetic direction in the mid-20th century.

It was modified or put on hold in the 1800's as the saints, due to their apostasy, 
failed to obtain the land of their inheritance.

But the future prophetic direction to gather in Doctrine and Covenants 133 is to 
the land of Zion in preparation for the Second Coming, not stakes of Zion in areas
such as Europe or Australia though. The saints are already in their stakes so a new
directive to gather to their stakes would not make sense.  

That's why I made a reference to the land of Zion in verse 20.  The land of Zion
in verse 24 does not represent all the stakes of Zion.

"When the Lamb shall stand upon Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four 
thousand, having his Father’s name written on their foreheads"

Mount Zion here is a reference to Doctrine and Covenants 84:2.

"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for 
the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and 
for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city 
of New Jerusalem".

There is still an outstanding prophecy for the saints to recapture their land of
inheritance. See Doctrine and Covenants 101:44-58 and 103:11-36.

[Pyreaux]

22 hours ago, telnetd said:

It was modified or put on hold in the 1800's as the saints, due to their apostasy, 
failed to obtain the land of their inheritance.

But the future prophetic direction to gather in Doctrine and Covenants 133 is to 
the land of Zion in preparation for the Second Coming, not stakes of Zion in areas
such as Europe or Australia though. The saints are already in their stakes so a new
directive to gather to their stakes would not make sense.  

That's why I made a reference to the land of Zion in verse 20.  The land of Zion
in verse 24 does not represent all the stakes of Zion.

"When the Lamb shall stand upon Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four 
thousand, having his Father’s name written on their foreheads"

Mount Zion here is a reference to Doctrine and Covenants 84:2.

"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for 
the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and 
for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city 
of New Jerusalem".

There is still an outstanding prophecy for the saints to recapture their land of
inheritance. See Doctrine and Covenants 101:44-58 and 103:11-36.

That is one way to look at it. The failure to fully establish Zion in Missouri in the 1830s was indeed attributed, in part, to the transgression and "apostasy" (lack of faithfulness/obedience) of the early Saints, "And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive them. My people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffer." (D&C 101:6-8).

 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints still affirms a future fulfillment of the prophecies concerning the central land of Zion, but it does not view the temporary pause on the physical gathering as a sign of permanent collective apostasy or a loss of their priesthood or divine authorities. 

The verses in D&C 133 are understood to be describing the ultimate, complete gathering that will occur just before and during the Second Coming. The "Land of Zion" is the promised physical location which will be prepared to meet the Lord. This ultimate, physical gathering is still an outstanding prophecy and will occur when the time is right.

If your specific Mormon denomination believes the physical gathering to the New Jerusalem must occur before any spiritual preparation in other stakes, then that is a difference in prophetic interpretation I won't dispute. But within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the current instruction is to gather to the local stakes while holding the ultimate gathering in Missouri as a future promise.

Edited November 21, 2025 by Pyreaux