Tabernacles, temples, and the anointing on Joseph Smith's lineage

[telnetd]

Come Follow Me is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 124 this week.

37-39 - "And again, verily I say unto you, how shall your washings be acceptable unto 
me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name? For, for this 
cause I commanded Moses that he should build a tabernacle, that they should bear it 
with them in the wilderness, and to build a house in the land of promise, that those 
ordinances might be revealed which had been hid from before the world was ... are 
ordained by the ordinance of my holy house, which my people are always commanded to 
build unto my holy name".

Why is Moses the example used to show that God has always commanded his people to 
build tabernacles or temples?  Why not name any people prior to him?

42-43 - "And I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house, 
and the priesthood thereof, and the place whereon it shall be built. And ye shall 
build it on the place where you have contemplated building it, for that is the spot 
which I have chosen for you to build it".

It seems like God did not make the choice all by himself but rather chose the place 
for the house that was already contemplated by Joseph or others.

49 - "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the 
sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might 
and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their 
enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth 
me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of 
their offerings".

The books of Ezra, Haggai, and Nehemiah show that God instructed certain people to 
rebuild the temple and the walls of Jerusalem and protected them through all the 
persecution they suffered.  There is mention of God's protection or encouragement in 
the Bible (Ezra 5:5; Haggai 1:13, 2:5; Nehemiah 2:8, 4:20) but not for the Nauvoo House.

57-58 - "For this anointing have I put upon his head, that his blessing shall also 
be put upon the head of his posterity after him. And as I said unto Abraham concerning 
the kindreds of the earth, even so I say unto my servant Joseph: In thee and in thy 
seed shall the kindred of the earth be blessed".

What anointing was placed on Joseph Smith's lineage and how have the kindred of the 
earth been blessed through his seed?

For this, I reference the other sect called the Community of Christ.  They have significant
differences in scriptural canon, priesthood, leadership, temple practices, and theology.
In these ways they view the main group as apostates.
 

92-94 - "That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon 
the heads of all my people, That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he 
curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; 
and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. And from this time 
forth I appoint unto him that he may be a prophet, and a seer, and a revelator unto my 
church, as well as my servant Joseph".

Is this the only time two people concurrently held the keys to bind and loose?

Do one or more people hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all 
God's people today and does he/they still utter curses or has another revelation been 
given to stop the cursing?

[ZealouslyStriving]

17 minutes ago, telnetd said:

What anointing was placed on Joseph Smith's lineage and how have the kindred of the 
earth been blessed through his seed?

In case you are unaware, many of the leading men of the early Church were sealed to Joseph- thus making them, and their children, of his lineage through adoption.

[CV75]

19 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Come Follow Me is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 124 this week.

37-39 - "And again, verily I say unto you, how shall your washings be acceptable unto 
me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name? For, for this 
cause I commanded Moses that he should build a tabernacle, that they should bear it 
with them in the wilderness, and to build a house in the land of promise, that those 
ordinances might be revealed which had been hid from before the world was ... are 
ordained by the ordinance of my holy house, which my people are always commanded to 
build unto my holy name".

Why is Moses the example used to show that God has always commanded his people to 
build tabernacles or temples?  Why not name any people prior to him?

42-43 - "And I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house, 
and the priesthood thereof, and the place whereon it shall be built. And ye shall 
build it on the place where you have contemplated building it, for that is the spot 
which I have chosen for you to build it".

It seems like God did not make the choice all by himself but rather chose the place 
for the house that was already contemplated by Joseph or others.

49 - "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the 
sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might 
and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their 
enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth 
me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of 
their offerings".

The books of Ezra, Haggai, and Nehemiah show that God instructed certain people to 
rebuild the temple and the walls of Jerusalem and protected them through all the 
persecution they suffered.  There is mention of God's protection or encouragement in 
the Bible (Ezra 5:5; Haggai 1:13, 2:5; Nehemiah 2:8, 4:20) but not for the Nauvoo House.

57-58 - "For this anointing have I put upon his head, that his blessing shall also 
be put upon the head of his posterity after him. And as I said unto Abraham concerning 
the kindreds of the earth, even so I say unto my servant Joseph: In thee and in thy 
seed shall the kindred of the earth be blessed".

What anointing was placed on Joseph Smith's lineage and how have the kindred of the 
earth been blessed through his seed?

For this, I reference the other sect called the Community of Christ.  They have significant
differences in scriptural canon, priesthood, leadership, temple practices, and theology.
In these ways they view the main group as apostates.
 

92-94 - "That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon 
the heads of all my people, That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he 
curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; 
and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. And from this time 
forth I appoint unto him that he may be a prophet, and a seer, and a revelator unto my 
church, as well as my servant Joseph".

Is this the only time two people concurrently held the keys to bind and loose?

Do one or more people hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all 
God's people today and does he/they still utter curses or has another revelation been 
given to stop the cursing?

Why is Moses the example used to show that God has always commanded his people to 
build tabernacles or temples?  Why not name any people prior to him? Because Moses committed to Joseph Smith the keys of gathering and there's the tie-in.

It seems like God did not make the choice all by himself but rather chose the place for the house that was already contemplated by Joseph or others. God often inspires people before He commands them ("great minds think alike" principle). It was probably a combination of both God's choice and Joseph Smith's contemplation. We often make a decision before the Lord confirms it; commandments rarely come out of thin air.

What anointing was placed on Joseph Smith's lineage and how have the kindred of the earth been blessed through his seed? The anointing is Elias committing to Joseph Smith Abraham the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham and there's the tie-in.

Is this the only time two people concurrently held the keys to bind and loose? No, there is the model of “a quorum of three presidents anciently” described in D&C 107, and all the first Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have those keys today (all are prophets, seers and revelators). There is no longer a Church Patriarch, only stake patriarchs, for practical purposes.

Do one or more people hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all  God's people today and does he/they still utter curses or has another revelation been 
given to stop the cursing? Yes, more than one (see answer immediately above). Today, stake patriarchs are called and set apart by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. They are not prophets, seers and revelators in the official sustained sense and exercise only the keys they are permitted to.  The cursing aspect of these keys to my knowledge has not been rescinded.

[Benjamin McGuire]

5 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

In case you are unaware, many of the leading men of the early Church were sealed to Joseph- thus making them, and their children, of his lineage through adoption.

The practice and theology of sealings of adoption ended around 1894. The shift in the theology of the Celestial Kingdom no longer required it - and who you were sealed to stopped becoming a core criteria for your place in the Celestial Kingdom. With this shift, many of those sealings of adoption were replaced with sealings to biological parents.

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

The practice and theology of sealings of adoption ended around 1894. The shift in the theology of the Celestial Kingdom no longer required it - and who you were sealed to stopped becoming a core criteria for your place in the Celestial Kingdom. With this shift, many of those sealings of adoption were replaced with sealings to biological parents.

I stand by my statement as it pertains to the question in the OP. Joseph's lineage blessing the world are the descendants of those sealed to him in adoption. Has Joseph's physical seed blessed the world or just caused division within the Restoration- including within their own movement?

Edited October 30, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, telnetd said:

49 - "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the 
sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might 
and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their 
enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth 
me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of 
their offerings".

The books of Ezra, Haggai, and Nehemiah show that God instructed certain people to 
rebuild the temple and the walls of Jerusalem and protected them through all the 
persecution they suffered.  There is mention of God's protection or encouragement in 
the Bible (Ezra 5:5; Haggai 1:13, 2:5; Nehemiah 2:8, 4:20) but not for the Nauvoo House.

My question about that verse is its incompatibility with this one:

“And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”

So does the Lord always provide a way or not?

[CV75]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

My question about that verse is its incompatibility with this one:

“And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”

So does the Lord always provide a way or not?

No, because Nephi didn't say "always." The Lord prepares a way and may allow His enemies to frustrate it for the time being (perhaps Nephi wasn't the first the Lord commanded to get these plates into the hands of a righteous branch). I think the purpose and ramifications of the task at hand may also play a part in determining the Lord's guarantee of immediate and miraculous completion

[telnetd]

On 10/30/2025 at 12:29 AM, The Nehor said:

My question about that verse is its incompatibility with this one:

“And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”

So does the Lord always provide a way or not?

He did in that case.

[telnetd]

On 10/29/2025 at 1:27 PM, CV75 said:

What anointing was placed on Joseph Smith's lineage and how have the kindred of the earth been blessed through his seed? The anointing is Elias committing to Joseph Smith Abraham the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham and there's the tie-in.

Thank you, but the question was about Joseph's seed.

[telnetd]

On 10/29/2025 at 1:18 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

In case you are unaware, many of the leading men of the early Church were sealed to Joseph- thus making them, and their children, of his lineage through adoption.

That's not what the passage is referring to.

[ZealouslyStriving]

5 hours ago, telnetd said:

That's not what the passage is referring to.

Well, I guess the final word has been spoken.

[CV75]

5 hours ago, telnetd said:

Thank you, but the question was about Joseph's seed.

The Abrahamic covenant applies to anyone's seed. The was Lord was speaking to Joseph at the time as the High Priest through whom these keys were restored, so what applies to him extends to all who make the covenant(s) under those auspices. 

If I'm still not understanding, hat is your specific question, and its context, about Joseph's seed?

[telnetd]

18 hours ago, CV75 said:

If I'm still not understanding, hat is your specific question, and its context, about Joseph's seed?

57-58 - "For this anointing have I put upon his head, that his blessing shall also 
be put upon the head of his posterity after him. And as I said unto Abraham concerning 
the kindreds of the earth, even so I say unto my servant Joseph: In thee and in thy 
seed shall the kindred of the earth be blessed".

What anointing was placed on Joseph Smith's lineage and how have the kindred of the 
earth been blessed through his seed?

[telnetd]

18 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Well, I guess the final word has been spoken.

Why do you believe "seed" is really applying to people becoming adopted or sons and daughters
unto Joseph Smith?

[ZealouslyStriving]

43 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Why do you believe "seed" is really applying to people becoming adopted or sons and daughters
unto Joseph Smith?

Because it tracks with the Law of Adoption found throughout the scriptures and Gospel. And those descendants through adoption are the ones who have been an influence for good throughout the world- Joseph's physical seed has only had a small impact and has been a cause of division within the Restoration in general and their own movement in particular. You need to have a comprehensive view of the Restored Gospel and it history to gain a proper understanding.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

57-58 - "For this anointing have I put upon his head, that his blessing shall also 
be put upon the head of his posterity after him. And as I said unto Abraham concerning 
the kindreds of the earth, even so I say unto my servant Joseph: In thee and in thy 
seed shall the kindred of the earth be blessed".

What anointing was placed on Joseph Smith's lineage and how have the kindred of the 
earth been blessed through his seed?

The same anointing that Abraham received, and that any saint may receive when the keys are available for it. We refer to it as the Abrahamic covenant. Joseph Smith was the first in this dispensation to receive it, and so the saying (covenant) to Abraham serves as the pattern for what was said to Joseph Smith, which in its restoration through him is the pattern used for the rest of us who will receive it. The anointing in verse 57 is a subset of the anointings in verse 39, which are a subset of the ordinances in verse 38, which are a subset of the fulness of the priesthood in verse 28. The references to baptism for the dead, the tabernacle/temple/house and the administrative and temporal aspects thereof expand the understanding that this anointing principle to cover both sides of the veil and material aspects of the holy priesthood and its blessings.

 

[telnetd]

22 hours ago, CV75 said:

The same anointing that Abraham received, and that any saint may receive when the keys are available for it. We refer to it as the Abrahamic covenant. Joseph Smith was the first in this dispensation to receive it, and so the saying (covenant) to Abraham serves as the pattern for what was said to Joseph Smith, which in its restoration through him is the pattern used for the rest of us who will receive it. The anointing in verse 57 is a subset of the anointings in verse 39, which are a subset of the ordinances in verse 38, which are a subset of the fulness of the priesthood in verse 28. The references to baptism for the dead, the tabernacle/temple/house and the administrative and temporal aspects thereof expand the understanding that this anointing principle to cover both sides of the veil and material aspects of the holy priesthood and its blessings.

 

Who in Joseph Smith's lineage obtained the fulness of the priesthood?

[telnetd]

On 11/1/2025 at 1:17 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

Because it tracks with the Law of Adoption found throughout the scriptures and Gospel. And those descendants through adoption are the ones who have been an influence for good throughout the world- Joseph's physical seed has only had a small impact and has been a cause of division within the Restoration in general and their own movement in particular. You need to have a comprehensive view of the Restored Gospel and it history to gain a proper understanding.

I see it with Abraham and God, but adoption into Joseph Smith's family is not a theology
taught in scripture though.

[CV75]

40 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Who in Joseph Smith's lineage obtained the fulness of the priesthood?

I do not know (nor is it within my purview o know), but it is certainly available to all the posterity of Adam no matter the dispensation in which it was introduced or restored. We only call it the Abrahamic covenant because that is the reference point the Lord wants to work with as He prepares the world for His Second Coming. He seemed to refer to Moses and Abraham in His own mortal ministry as well. 

[ZealouslyStriving]

48 minutes ago, telnetd said:

I see it with Abraham and God, but adoption into Joseph Smith's family is not a theology
taught in scripture though.

What?

The issue is that you haven't taken the time to actually understand our theology or history, so you completely misunderstand what I am talking about.

[telnetd]

On 11/2/2025 at 1:36 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

What?

The issue is that you haven't taken the time to actually understand our theology or history, so you completely misunderstand what I am talking about.

Do you believe you're also viewed as Peter or Paul's seed?

[ZealouslyStriving]

19 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Do you believe you're also viewed as Peter or Paul's seed?

No... And I don't view myself as Joseph Smith's seed either. You are completely missing what I am saying because you refuse to actually get to know Latter-day Saint history and teachings. You just find things that you believe will achieve the most gotcha points.

Edited November 5, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[telnetd]

On 11/5/2025 at 12:46 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

No... And I don't view myself as Joseph Smith's seed either. You are completely missing what I am saying because you refuse to actually get to know Latter-day Saint history and teachings. You just find things that you believe will achieve the most gotcha points.

I'm trying to understand.  Back on November 1, you said
 

Quote

 

Joseph's physical seed has only had a small impact and has been a cause of division within the Restoration in general and their own movement in particular. You need to have a comprehensive view of the Restored Gospel and it history to gain a proper understanding

 

Would you explain the bolded part; how the earth was blessed through Joseph's seed?:

"And as I said unto Abraham concerning the kindreds of the earth, even so I say unto 
my servant Joseph: In thee and in thy seed shall the kindred of the earth be blessed".

[teddyaware]

50 minutes ago, telnetd said:

I'm trying to understand.  Back on November 1, you said
 

Would you explain the bolded part; how the earth was blessed through Joseph's seed?:

"And as I said unto Abraham concerning the kindreds of the earth, even so I say unto 
my servant Joseph: In thee and in thy seed shall the kindred of the earth be blessed".

There are a number of direct descendants of the Prophet Joseph Smith who have joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who are presently making meaningful contributions to the cause of Zion; and there’s plenty of time between now and eternity for the descendants of Joseph Smith Junior to continue to multiply and have a major impact on the spiritual enlightenment and development of the human family. The seed spoken of in the bolded portion of the quoted verse will continue to expand by increasing multitudes into the far reaches of eternity, far beyond the first generation of the prophet’s immediate family.

Edited November 8, 2025 by teddyaware

[ZealouslyStriving]

40 minutes ago, telnetd said:

I'm trying to understand.  Back on November 1, you said
 

Would you explain the bolded part; how the earth was blessed through Joseph's seed?:

"And as I said unto Abraham concerning the kindreds of the earth, even so I say unto 
my servant Joseph: In thee and in thy seed shall the kindred of the earth be blessed".

Many of the leading men of the Church who led the Saints to Utah were sealed to Joseph, their descendants became missionaries, Church leaders, etc... that took the Lord's Restored Gospel to the nations, and it has spread out from there to fill the world.

It's really as simple as that.