Is this a true statement according to Church Doctrine?

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, manol said:

Anyway there seem to be indications here and there within the LDS canon that arguably apply to the bolded part above: At the Celestial level time as we know it apparently does not exist, so by implication "outpacing" one another in a way that increases separation might not be a thing

The reference to outpacing seems nonapplicable to the Celestial Kingdom and even the Terrestrial, anywhere there is the acceptance of Christ as Saviour and willingness to receive his Grace through the Atonement.  The existence of outpacing seems to me to be removed by the very mechanism of the Atonement.  God is not requiring us to progress on our own, but he is reaching his hand out and pulling us forward to be by his side. 

Edited September 1, 2025 by Calm

[The Nehor]

17 hours ago, let’s roll said:

For those accountable in mortality, this life may indeed be spiritual repechage.  The winners have already been crowned.

Or their trial is at the end of the Millenium.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

Has anyone here heard the assumption that all mortal life forms are some expression of humanity as it was organized as spirits, enabling the complete flexing of the requisite distribution of the two genders in the afterlife -- that any non-human is just an abnormality of mortal replication?

I have heard of multiple mortal probations starting low on the complexity of life scale and moving higher through to humans, but have never heard of it in regard to balancing genders.  Nor have I ever heard of all life being the same spiritual species and non human life is just degraded or partial human mortal forms…if this is actually what you are describing.  Seems overly complicated.  One can simply assume God is holding all the righteous male or female spirits needed to make the assumed final numbers work in reserve for the Millennium if one feels the need to justify speculation that numbers in the CK won’t reflect general population stats.

Edited September 1, 2025 by Calm

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Not as church doctrine, just as speculation by some church members trying to explain plural marriage in the eternities.  I thought it clear I was referring to assumptions made by people and not doctrine.   

You probably were clear, but I didn't read your post just the other one that referred to "this fact"...

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I have heard of multiple mortal probations starting low on the complexity of life scale and moving higher through to humans, but have never heard of it in regard to balancing genders.  Nor have I ever heard of all life being the same spiritual species and non human life is just degraded or partial human mortal forms…if this is actually what you are describing.  Seems overly complicated.  One can simply assume God is holding all the righteous male or female spirits needed to make the assumed final numbers work in reserve for the Millennium if one feels the need to justify speculation that numbers in the CK won’t reflect general population stats.

Yes, the 2nd is what I'm describing. To me, it seems no more complicated than the plan of happiness is inefficient. Each mortal soul serves a purpose in Adam's stewardship, and the vast majority are not accountable and saved, no matter when they die. Those children of God not manifesting mortal human identity or gender still have both as eternal characteristics.

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, CV75 said:

the plan of happiness is inefficient

I don’t think the plan of happiness is inefficient.  I think God is very efficient.  I think some of the speculation trying to fill in gaps or reconcile what appear to be inconsistencies would be inefficient…and therefore are unlikely in my view.

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Those children of God not manifesting mortal human identity or gender still have both as eternal characteristics.

Is this something you have heard speculated but personally think unlikely, think it could be but are neutral, or believe it is quite likely, or even are confident about?

If humans are in the image of God, how can that include trees or platypuses or sea urchins or hawks?

 

Edited September 2, 2025 by Calm

[CV75]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t think the plan of happiness is inefficient.  I think God is very efficient.  I think some of the speculation trying to fill in gaps or reconcile what appear to be inconsistencies would be inefficient…and therefore are unlikely in my view.

I seem to recall someone saying recently that the plan of salvation seemed very inefficient, but we hear that a lot when the alternative is that God can make things happen with a snap of the finger.

[CV75]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is this something you have heard speculated but personally think unlikely, think it could be but are neutral, or believe it is quite likely, or even are confident about?

If humans are in the image of God, how can that include trees or platypuses or sea urchins or hawks?

 

I think it is an extension or variation of Gaia philosophy. I am neutral about it; it has nothing to do with my relationship with God or the covenants. Anything can happen as far as I'm concerned.

"Man is spirit (D&C 93: 33)", created after the image of God pre-mortally; Adam and Eve were likewise created paradisaically; after the Fall anything goes as spirits come to earth. Spirits can manifest themselves variably in different estates, so in Eden, the spirit children designated as non-accountable were organized as other life forms for the time being. D&C 77: 3 - 4 is both literal and figurative: "the classes of beings in their destined order or sphere of creation" refers to their form in Eden and this world but not the resurrection, where they are people. The sea of glass upon which they all live is an element that can be made as varied and beautiful (covering every sense) as anyone wishes. The other kingdoms likewise.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

I have heard of multiple mortal probations starting low on the complexity of life scale and moving higher through to humans, but have never heard of it in regard to balancing genders.  Nor have I ever heard of all life being the same spiritual species and non human life is just degraded or partial human mortal forms…if this is actually what you are describing.  Seems overly complicated.  One can simply assume God is holding all the righteous male or female spirits needed to make the assumed final numbers work in reserve for the Millennium if one feels the need to justify speculation that numbers in the CK won’t reflect general population stats.

That would suggest that a lot more women than men didn't make the cut and were used as animal spirits. Possible but the implications would be weird.

I personally am only willing to marry human and sugar glider spirits.

[JVW]

On 8/31/2025 at 3:17 PM, Navidad said:

I hope it is ok to post this link. Your post reminded me of one of my very favorite tidbits of a sermon by a wonderful preacher from Scotland. It speaks to your point about us being "all the failures who barely qualified to come at all." 
 

 

Thanks for sharing this clip, it was very good. If you have any other personal favorite clips I'd love it if you PMed me a list that I could work through and enjoy.