Christ's ministry in the spirit world - D&C 138:7-51

[ttribe]

Just an observation - If God is so concerned about humanity not rejecting His prophets and their messages, it sure would help if He stopped calling so many people (not all) of low moral character as "prophets" throughout history.

[Calm]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

can’t come up with a better explanation for verse 7.

But “express” means clear, so the verse can’t be referring to past scripture which definitely wasn’t, but the one just given when it says “it might work upon the hearts of the children of men”.

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Express

Quote

EXPRESS', adjective Plain; clear; expressed; direct not ambiguous. We are informed in express terms or words. The terms of the contract are express

1. Given in direct terms; not implied or left to inference. This is the express covenant or agreement. We have his express consent. We have an express law on the subject. express warranty; express malice.

The it that is “more express” is the same it that is meant to work on people’s hearts, and “express” only makes sense here if the direct, not ambiguous scripture is not the mistaken, confusing interpretation of forever punishment, but the eternal is God’s name explanation in the previous verses.

Added:  What I see God saying here is he wants the correct understanding of his ultimate grace, that punishment is not forever, to open up men’s hearts to bring them to him.  I can think of few things better at changing one’s view of God to something more positive than to see love where once one might have only seen coldness, heartlessness, or even cruelty than changing a belief if one sins or lacks in some other way one no longer needs to fear forever punishment, that it will end when one is purified of one’s sins either by accepting God’s grace or suffering the consequences we actually deserve (how can an infinite punishment for all future existence be just for any finite behaviour, no matter how horrible?).

added:  I used to think of “express” used similarly to “expedient” (mostly because I didn’t look up the actual definition and just extrapolated from the context) and interpreted it as I think you are, seeing the it as shorthand for “mistaken interpretation of eternal as forever, rather than godly”, but it never felt right to me because “express” felt out of place.  Once I took the time to check the definition and then looked closely at what the its actually referred to, the sentence structure finally worked for me and the whole collection of verses made more sense. 

more adding:  I just checked express and expedient in both the BoM and the D&C.  Express is used to mean exact when used as an adjective.  Expedient is used over 102 times in modern scripture including the JST, so if that was what was meant seems like Joseph would be comfortable using that word.  Express was only used 6 times if one uses the JST, so also seems like Joseph would go to expedient rather than use express in a way he didn’t use it elsewhere (at least in scripture, it would be better to refer to all his writing up to the time this verse was written first, but to lazy to try and figure out how to manage that).

Edited August 28, 2025 by Calm

[marineland]

On 8/28/2025 at 1:20 PM, teddyaware said:

By the way, why don’t you intensively read and ponder the whole of Doctrine and Covenants 138 with an open mind and the perhaps all the answers you’re seeking will be presented to your heart and mind in crystal clear clarity?

If everyone did that, there wouldn't be a need to post questions in a forum 🙂

Why does Alma teach, in the verses I provided, that mortality is the only time
to prepare to meet God?

 

On 8/28/2025 at 1:20 PM, teddyaware said:

But first this…

14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles shall be cut off from among the people (in other words, they will be wholly cast out of the Father’s kingdoms of heavenly glory on the day of final judgement and become sons of perdition); (Doctrine and Covenants 1)

and…

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. (Doctrine and Covenants 1)

Finally, verse 31 of Doctrine and Covenants 138 makes it perfectly clear that the rebellious who rejected the prophets while they sojourned on the earth in the flesh are retaught the gospel in the spirit world in the hope that they will finally soften their hearts (as a consequence of having had to bear the miserable burden of their own sins while in the spirit prison) will, with gratitude, eventually accept Jesus Christ as their atoning Lord and Savior:

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptance day of the Lord (“the acceptable day of the Lord” means the Lord is still extending his arm of mercy to the spirits in prison) and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of have their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression having rejected the prophets. (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

A multiple choice question for you:

Why would do you think the Lord wants the gospel to be preached to the spirits of those who once rejected the prophet’s testimonies of Christ while they were in the flesh?

1) Is it because he wants to rub their faces in the sad reality that they “blew it” and they can never be saved?

2) Or is it because he has an infinite and eternal love for them, and, in spite of their former rebellion, he still fervently hopes they will accept him in faith so that he can save them?

Another option would be that those who rejected the gospel in mortality would 
know of its surety in the spirit world or in the resurrection. 

I wouldn't put much credence for #2.  The parable of the rich man and Lazarus
gives some insight. 

"Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my 
father’s house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest 
they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have 
Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: 
but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, 
If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though 
one rose from the dead".

There is no reason to preach the gospel to the living when they will have it re-taught
to them in the spirit world and then have the ability to make a more well-informed
choice as to if they will believe it or not.

How does Doctrine and Covenants 138:32 relate to the wicked in Noah's day that
Christ preached to in 1 Peter 3:18-20?

Edited August 30, 2025 by marineland

[ZealouslyStriving]

On 8/21/2025 at 12:18 PM, teddyaware said:

And there were gathered together IN ONE PLACE an innumerable company of the spirits of the just who had been faithful in the testimony of Jesus while they lived in mortality; (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

Zion above.

[The Nehor]

On 8/28/2025 at 12:46 PM, Calm said:

But “express” means clear, so the verse can’t be referring to past scripture which definitely wasn’t, but the one just given when it says “it might work upon the hearts of the children of men”.

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Express

The it that is “more express” is the same it that is meant to work on people’s hearts, and “express” only makes sense here if the direct, not ambiguous scripture is not the mistaken, confusing interpretation of forever punishment, but the eternal is God’s name explanation in the previous verses.

Added:  What I see God saying here is he wants the correct understanding of his ultimate grace, that punishment is not forever, to open up men’s hearts to bring them to him.  I can think of few things better at changing one’s view of God to something more positive than to see love where once one might have only seen coldness, heartlessness, or even cruelty than changing a belief if one sins or lacks in some other way one no longer needs to fear forever punishment, that it will end when one is purified of one’s sins either by accepting God’s grace or suffering the consequences we actually deserve (how can an infinite punishment for all future existence be just for any finite behaviour, no matter how horrible?).

added:  I used to think of “express” used similarly to “expedient” (mostly because I didn’t look up the actual definition and just extrapolated from the context) and interpreted it as I think you are, seeing the it as shorthand for “mistaken interpretation of eternal as forever, rather than godly”, but it never felt right to me because “express” felt out of place.  Once I took the time to check the definition and then looked closely at what the its actually referred to, the sentence structure finally worked for me and the whole collection of verses made more sense. 

more adding:  I just checked express and expedient in both the BoM and the D&C.  Express is used to mean exact when used as an adjective.  Expedient is used over 102 times in modern scripture including the JST, so if that was what was meant seems like Joseph would be comfortable using that word.  Express was only used 6 times if one uses the JST, so also seems like Joseph would go to expedient rather than use express in a way he didn’t use it elsewhere (at least in scripture, it would be better to refer to all his writing up to the time this verse was written first, but to lazy to try and figure out how to manage that).

I find it more convincing the way I read it. I see it as “express” meaning that it is direct to scare people but isn’t the whole story. Also the part that works on the hearts of the children of the men is the term at the start where it is “everlasting”.

If you are right I would argue that this scripture explaining about how “express” this scripture is definitely not itself “express”.