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Everything posted by SeekingUnderstanding

  1. I think you meant fine second Saturday evening. And yes tonight my 2 year old is coughing in bed so in between coughs, I’m up pointing out the stupidity of strangers on the internet. It’s a tough job, but someone’s got to do it.
  2. How many times do I need to go round and round with your condescension before I can call it out? Not an “I’m sorry for wasting your time” for not taking one second to check your post after I pointed out your error?
  3. I’m really starting to doubt your intelligence here. Do I need to list what we have done to address traffic fatalities? Have you ever driven somewhere where there are no traffic laws, rules and regulations? Where would you rather drive? I spent a couple weeks in Nepal and driving was terrifying.
  4. Which is exactly 100 times what you posted here: Are you being deliberately stupid to try and get me thread banned? Because it’s working. I don’t think my brain can take another go around with you on this.
  5. I don’t know if you are being intentionally obtuse or what, but I’m going to expect a profuse apology after this: .256% not .00256% as you posted before.
  6. When you use a percentage you multiply by 100. Like if one out a hundred dies that’s 1% not .01%
  7. Your math is off by a factor of a 100.
  8. Right, so a second hand source. Over a decade after he hears an account from Harris (itself decades after the fact). Any chance for embellishment there? On the previous page you said my source was suspect (second hand 15 years after the fact). How can you tell when to pay attention to a source or not? (You also mistakenly identified it as third hand, but the source you linked had this foot note: “At the same time, Clark’s report of his direct conversation with Martin Harris is an important historical document that relates particularly to the Anthon transcript.”)
  9. How about a production right after the church settles on a narrative for how the Book of Mormon was produced beyond “the gift and power of God”. See questions up thread. I’ll get right on it then - after I demonstrate how to build the pyramids and Easter island statues, and produce a ufo out of nowhere in Vegas. ETA - You should go watch the Darren Brown miracle episode on Netflix, then come on here and tell me how he did it. If you can’t then the only reasonable explanation is that it is by the power of God (it’s all caught on camera too, no need to really on eye witness testimony given often years after the fact).
  10. I’d imagine near impossible for anyone without very youthful eyes. From my own perspective the Book of Mormon sounds like it was orally dictated, so if there was a sheet of paper down there it would likely just be a set of notes/ names places etc.
  11. In a grey hat, lots of reflection. No uneven levels. Assuming translators were not co conspirators, there is a huge power differential created by them thinking Joseph spoke for God, and that there were potential divine curses for bad actions. Lots of room for someone practiced in the art of glass looking (which requires the people skills to manipulate others). Well it’s my understanding that story dates quite late. But assuming Harris was sincere, again not hard to explain. Why would Joseph leave the alleged crib sheet in the hat while they were off skipping stones in the River. Much safer to put it back in later. And of course Joseph knows what his rock looks like.
  12. All of this presupposes no light would come in around the edges of his face. If it is enough to keep out all the light, it would be quite suffocating. Just saying.
  13. I’m not the saying he read from note cards (the text has a very oral feel to it to me), only that there was no need to put them in his lap if they were used. But slight of hand? Magician? Joseph was very involved in the occult, using his seer stone to locate hidden lost objects, search for buried treasure etc. a little slight of hand, sure why not? A bathroom break, sure why not? A break to stretch his legs, sure why not? Or his translators were co-conspirators? Sure why not.
  14. Aliens and magic are given explanations that from my standpoint aren’t different than God. There was a poster here back in the day ERayR that had a good theory going on the ancient pyramids (not aliens but it was supernatural). Perhaps the best comparison is to the tic tac video and other recent UAP recently released. We don’t know what they are therefore it must be aliens just isn’t convincing to me, but some people swear by it.
  15. I will merely point out that the first from Whitney was in 1870 and the second was 1879 in the same interview where Emma denied polygamy ever happened, so… Maybe they are right, maybe not but it’s not like there is one consistent narrative to point to and say this is what happened. As for reading in the bottom of a top hat? Easy peasy. Let a bit of light in. Or make sure your hat is a bit translucent.
  16. Further @Fether we have: http://boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/JJones.html http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/MHarris.html See here for more discussion: https://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2020/11/concealment-and-divine-prohibition-in-book-of-mormon-translation-accounts/ Unlike the Book of Abraham Papyri (which was shown off to anyone and everyone), the Book of Mormon translation was shrouded in mystery. I have a hard time accepting the idea that there was no way Joseph could have used notes. (Not saying he did - it doesn’t matter to me either way)
  17. CFR that no one saw him or heard him do that. The church doesn’t have a single narrative. Tight or loose translation? Where were the Nephites? Where is the hill Cumorah? How did the kjv get in the BOM? Did Joseph’s milieu affect the translation or was the actual translation done in the 1600’s later to be revealed to Joseph? ETA: the only official stance I am aware of was that it was done by the gift and power of God. Which isn’t much of an explanation to me, but ymmv.
  18. I don’t have time for a complete (or very thoughtful) response, but from a critics perspective you have this backwards. A few examples: I don’t know how Egyptians built the pyramids. I don’t know how the statues on Easter island were moved. I don’t know how David Copperfield made a UFO appear on stage when I saw him in Vegas. The fact that I don’t know exactly how any of the above happened doesn’t make the explanation that God or Aliens did it any more compelling. One more side note, why would Joseph put a note card in his lap when he could just put it in his white top hat that he had his face buried in?
  19. From Elder Oaks: ”There are many examples of racism in recent American history. The examples most familiarly reported by the media today are those that victimize Black Americans. These include the police brutality and other systemic discrimination in employment and housing publicized recently.”
  20. In a thread about the mistreatment of women no less…
  21. I am not sure anyone has given up on the aspirations, but their is fierce disagreement that we get there by pretending to be color blind when (in the words of no less that Elder Dallin Oaks) systemic racism abounds.
  22. Part of the problem is that in the vernacular, girl can be opposite “boy” or “guy” (“gal” just isn’t used at least where I’m at). Either way, woman is much better.
  23. I’m saying “by definition our founding documents are riddled with laws to favor only the 'lighter-skinned', to disfavor those who are 'darker-skinned',” How can this possibly be disputed!? Our founding documents and laws treated “Indians” as subhuman, slaves as non people and women as an after thought.
  24. “which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons” Nothing to see here. Move along…
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