telnetd
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Everything posted by telnetd
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Which men in the flesh are they being judging according to?
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Isn't that the point? They are given an equal opportunity to learn about and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ so they can be judged by the same standard. Why is there a "but" to that? Is Doctrine and Covenants 138:10 a judgment of the living on earth or the deceased in the spirit world?
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Why wasn't the phrase "chains of hell" used instead for the other spirits who died without a firm testimony of Jesus? How did Satan beguile Adam?
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Doctrine and Covenants 138:18,23 is an further description of those righteous who died firm in their testimony of Christ (verses 12-17). "While this vast multitude waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death, the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful ... And the saints rejoiced in their redemption, and bowed the knee and acknowledged the Son of God as their Redeemer and Deliverer from death and the chains of hell".
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Doctrine and Covenants 138:10 speaks of their being judged according to men in the flesh but these are the dead people in the spirit world, not those living a mortal life on earth. This just shows the terrestrials did not receive the gospel and its ordinances. It includes those in the two lower parts of the celestial kingdom because they had not lived according to God in the spirit for they came up short. Here's an example of what the verse seems to say. You have people who doesn't know math. All that don't know math before they die but who would have known math if they had been permitted to live longer would be credited with a math degree. They don't need to know math after they die because God's foreknowledge credits them with that degree. Same for a little child who never went to school and never knew any school subjects. Multiple people can post on the same subject without being the same person. But I'm amused by your conspiracy theories. Do you have one from November 3, 2020?
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It's also interesting that only these are in the chains of hell. "And the saints rejoiced in their redemption, and bowed the knee and acknowledged the Son of God as their Redeemer and Deliverer from death and the chains of hell". The rebellious and transgressors are the disobedient ones of 1 Peter 3:18-19. “By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water". (138:8-9).
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If atheists or people from other religions heard the key truths of the gospel (the atonement of Christ, baptism, and repentance) and rejected these and then died, what other truths would they then hear in the spirit world and obey to live according to God in the spirit? You're missing the fact that all who don't obey all the ordinances are not living in accordance to God because they do not inherit all that God had in store for them. "And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify them selves that they might be a judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit" (v. 34). Verse 35 continues: "And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross". These unrighteous ones (the unjust) are the ones who perished in the days of Noah, whom Christ is said to have visited in earlier verses (7-10). "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water ” (1 Peter 3:18–20 ) For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit" (1 Peter 4:6 ) The term "judged according to men in the flesh" seems to apply to both those living in mortality and those in the spirit world.
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@InCognitus also mentioned that part about being judged according to men in the flesh. Doctrine and Covenants 138:34 says "And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit". Do they just have to know all the principles of the gospel or do they also have to keep and perform all the principles of the Gospel to qualify themselves to be judged according to men and live according to God in the spirit? Who but those who return to live with God in the highest part of the Celestial Kingdom are viewed as living according to God in the spirit?
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"This life" is mortal life. The probationary state is also called the preparatory state in Alma 42:13. Alma 34:35 speaks of a final, endless state for those who had died in an unrepentant state: "For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked. Verse 32 again refers to it as "this life". "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors".
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Yes you did. I saw some other teachings which say it includes the time in the post-mortal world, up to one's resurrection.
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Alma doesn't teach the spirit world is a probationary period. Who receives spiritual death?
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The Book of Mormon shows others for whom redemption will not be made. It includes many more than the sons of perdition. "And Amulek hath spoken plainly concerning death, and being raised from this mortality to a state of immortality, and being brought before the bar of God, to be judged according to our works ... And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness. Then is the time when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will. Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God's justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption" (Alma 12:12, 16-18). "Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God” (Alma 42:13). The second death is for those who are not in the first resurrection (Rev. 20:6). The Plan of Salvation defines spiritual death as "Separation from God as a result of disobeying His commandments. We are saved from spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ as we repent and keep His commandments". All those who don't return to live with God fall under that category of "spiritual death".
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Is the second estate life in mortality as Guide to the Scriptures defines? https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/second-estate?lang=eng
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Is keeping the second estate exaltation, becoming like He is?
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Does the second estate extend to those who have died?
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So keeping your first estate is based on the choice of which side of the war you were on?
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How did the second not keep his first estate?
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That's how I see it by the bold part. 24 We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; 25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; 26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon Verse 26 is based on verse 24 happening first (creation and them dwelling on the created earth in mortality), with first 25 overlapping (a time of testing in mortality).
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What does keeping your second estate mean then?
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Based on the wording of the bolded part, the first estate is mortality.
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The "Angel" of Doctrine and Covenants 84:28
telnetd replied to ZealouslyStriving's topic in General Discussions
Who baptized John as a child? -
The "Angel" of Doctrine and Covenants 84:28
telnetd replied to ZealouslyStriving's topic in General Discussions
How was John baptized in his childhood as Doctrine and Covenants 84:28 says? -
The "Angel" of Doctrine and Covenants 84:28
telnetd replied to ZealouslyStriving's topic in General Discussions
John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born (Luke 1:15). If he was ordained by his father, there would be no need of mentioning an unnamed angel. He was not baptized in his childhood like the Doctrine and Covenants says for John said he needed to be baptized by Jesus instead of him baptizing Christ. "Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?" (Matthew 3:13-14). -
Pres. Oaks: "...a Heavenly Mother or Mothers"
telnetd replied to ZealouslyStriving's topic in General Discussions
Does this image, showing several ethnicities, reveal multiple heavenly mothers? Our Heavenly Father’s Plan We lived in heaven with Heavenly Father before we came to earth. We are His spirit children and had spirit bodies. We loved Him, and He loved us. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 354 -
Pres. Oaks: "...a Heavenly Mother or Mothers"
telnetd replied to ZealouslyStriving's topic in General Discussions
The doctrine of there being multiple heavenly mothers for our Earth or wives of future polygamous Gods of their worlds (Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others) shouldn't be a surprise to those who believe Doctrine and Covenants 132. It starts with verses 1 and 38. "I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines". "David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me". The LDS heavenly father glorified himself in the same way, which much seed. "Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them. This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself". It continued with other elders who may have desired to marry ten virgins before the practice was prohibited in 1890 (verses 61-63). @ZealouslyStriving
