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telnetd

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Everything posted by telnetd

  1. A child is an heir.
  2. Only children become Gods. Not a God, then not a child.
  3. Where does it teach Father, Son, and Holy Ghost became God?
  4. @Tony uk Tony is a Catholic. I am not aware that Catholics hold a different position.
  5. Unbaptized babies are not damned but they are tainted by the Fall. Moroni 8 says "little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me". What is the curse of Adam and when do little children inherit that curse that is done away from them in Him?
  6. What year did the church (LDS) decide that this "truth" was now false? Two significant leaders taught it, President Joseph Fielding Smith and Charles Penrose, counselor in the First Presidency. “It is most natural and just that he who commits the wrong should pay the penalty—atone for his wrongdoing. Therefore, when Adam was the transgressor of the law, justice demanded that he, and none else, should answer for the sin and pay the penalty with his life. But Adam, in breaking the law, himself became subject to the curse, and being under the curse could not atone, or undo what he had done. Neither could his children, for they also were under the curse, and it required one who was not subject to the curse to atone for that original sin. Moreover, since we were all under the curse, we were also powerless to atone for our individual sins” (JFS, Chapter 3). "There are two general divisions of sin, viz., original and actual. Original sin is that which was committed by the parents of the race, the consequences of which pass upon all of their posterity. Actual sin is that committed by each individual and for which he is personally responsible. Adam and Eve broke the divine law given to them in the garden, the penalty for which was death, natural and spiritual ; the first being the separation of the spirit and the body, and the second, banishment from the presence of God. The taint descended to their offspring" (Penrose, Mormon Doctrine Plain and Simple, Second Leaf, page 13). "He died not only to atone for original sin but for actual sin, and to become the mediator between God and man ... His blood was shed for the sins of the whole world. For original sin unconditionally, for actual sin conditionally" (page 14). The concept of "original sin" was then referred to as foolish, abominable, and erroneous in other teachings (Book of Mormon Seminary Teacher Manual and the June 2006 Liahona). One other teaching even says "The Book of Mormon refutes notions that the Fall of Adam tainted mankind with original sin" (President Russell M. Nelson, November 2017 Ensign). The Book of Mormon does teach this "tainting" aspect (Mosiah 16:3-4; Helaman 14:16; Ether 3:2). Even little children need to have the curse of Adam removed from them (Moroni 8:8). Original sin, rephrased as original guilt, is also mentioned in the POGP. "Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world" (Moses 6:54). The first instance of these parents is Adam and Eve, referred to as sinners (Alma 42:1-7). The Roman Catholic Church, in catechism, teaches baptism removes original sin and all personal sin and makes the person a new creature (CCC 1263, 1265, 1267, 1272, 1279).
  7. Emma had serious disagreements with Brigham Young, particularly over Church leadership and property after Joseph's death. She would join the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, led by her son Joseph Smith III More about her can be found here. "Emma struggled deeply with the principle of plural marriage. Joseph introduced the practice carefully and incrementally, marrying many additional wives, each of whom vowed to keep their participation confidential. Nevertheless, it is apparent that Joseph withheld knowledge of some of these relationships from Emma. In early 1843, Emma appears to have accepted plural marriage and personally consented to and witnessed Joseph’s marriages to four women. But by July, her attitude toward the practice had shifted again, and she burned a manuscript copy of the revelation on plural marriage now found in Doctrine and Covenants 132".
  8. Yes. Whether the newly formed Gods will use their reproductive organs to produce spirit children is questionable. I haven't see any teachings of your church which say how Mother and Father interacted in their marriage to perform this. But if they did, one shouldn't be offended by the thought.
  9. The introduction notes to Doctrine and Covenants 132 says "Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods".
  10. When do spirits of men and women become gods?
  11. What glory did Jesus have before he was born to his heavenly mother?
  12. Immortal men and women (as souls) are gods before being born to heavenly parents?
  13. This wouldn't explain why Joseph Smith retranslated John 1:1. "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God". "The gospel is the word and the word was with the Son" as opposed to Jesus being the Word in the KJV, and the Word (Jesus) became flesh. What was Joseph Smith trying to convey? If the word was with the Son and the gospel was the word, what became flesh? Jesus or the word? Was the word with Jesus before he is born to his heavenly mother?
  14. The "kind" of being God is ... is a deity. So no, I don't believe we are this "kind" of being. You may consider yourself an eternal (unformed) being but you will never be an eternal (unformed) God. By eternal being I assume you mean an eternal, uncreated intelligence. Your version of Christ was one of these before he was born to Heavenly Mother. Prior to that spiritual birth (maybe physical, a more purer form of matter?), he was not the Eternal God. I gather this from Abraham 3:21-24.
  15. Maybe not the way you understand them. But we know there is no scripture which teaches Jesus became the first spirit child of a heavenly mother who then became a God before taking on a mortal body.
  16. I'm not sure what else to add. The God of the Bible is the only true God. He has always existed as God. Jesus has always existed as God. He was never a spirit child of heavenly parents who became a God. The church created a pandora's box with its doctrine of Heavenly Mother. It cannot explain how she became a God, whether she married just a man or a God/man on the world she grew up on, or if some other Saviour provided an atonement for her sins and for the man who would become the God of our world. Maybe you know.
  17. You mean his spirit children with which he populated that world? Was Jesus even born to his heavenly mother when the Father created that other world?
  18. The kind of being that God is is a God. So I reject the idea that we are the same kind of being God is. The only being who is both God and man is Jesus Christ. Acts 17:28-29 does not imply a heavenly mother. Paul's argument is that God should not be viewed as the work of human hands. The Romans and Greeks even fashioned their Gods to appear as human (Zeus, Apollo, etc). Based on the Pearl of Great Price, your church would extend this backward in time, when spirit children, including Jesus and Lucifer, were not the same kind of being God is. Do you believe Jesus becomes the same kind of being God is when he is born to his heavenly mother?
  19. If getting power to create a world means being a God, then Heavenly Father is not God before creating his worlds.
  20. Did the Father work with others to create his world like Jesus did with Earth (who did what he saw the Father do)? Or was Jesus even born to his heavenly mother when the Father created a world for wife?
  21. God the Father is not an exalted human man from another world. Being created in the image of God does not make us underdeveloped Gods.
  22. "The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation). "If Abraham reasoned thus—If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, Hence if Jesus had a Father,10 can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it" (Teachings of Joseph Smith).
  23. Who made that earth where God the Father lived on?
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