telnetd
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Everything posted by telnetd
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Ok. So a prophecy of Samuel was given that could not be verified by the Nephites. Moses 7 used the phrase "and the earth groaned; and the rocks were rent". Enoch, a mortal, saw it. He also saw the saints being resurrected but doesn't limit this to only two people groups. Using your form of interpretation, the event of 3 Nephi 8:18 was not verified by the Nephites either. "And the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth".
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Is Ethan Smith's View of Hebrews inspired by God?
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What would 2 Nephi 25:23 mean if you changed one word?
telnetd replied to GoCeltics's topic in General Discussions
Add one more. "... all we must do". -
I don't take the Book of Mormon as a historical document. But it seems even those in Enoch's time knew about future local or worldwide resurrections (Moses 7:55-57). Much of its themes and events has been copied from the Bible.
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I don't know. Joseph Smith did the same in the Pearl of Great Price, Moses 7:55-57. "And the Lord said unto Enoch: Look, and he looked and beheld the Son of Man lifted up on the cross, after the manner of men; And he heard a loud voice; and the heavens were veiled; and all the creations of God mourned; and the earth groaned; and the rocks were rent; and the saints arose, and were crowned at the right hand of the Son of Man, with crowns of glory; And as many of the spirits as were in prison came forth, and stood on the right hand of God; and the remainder were reserved in chains of darkness until the judgment of the great day". What is not clear if this is a local resurrection or worldwide resurrections. It seems the saints from paradise were taken to the right hand of God in the highest division of the celestial kingdom and the rest remained in spirit prison awaiting their judgment.
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Christ was not baptized as a proxy for a dead person. We (the living) are baptized unto a living Christ as a outward sign of an inward expression of our faith in his atoning work. Being baptized for the dead (for Christ, or in other words for our faith in him) is of no benefit if Christ is not reason. That is what I believe is Paul's point of the question he posed.
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The account in 3 Nephi 23:7-13 is some prophecy of Samuel the Lamanite. Matthew's version is not a prophecy so I wouldn't say Joseph Smith copied it into the Book of Mormon.
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The living who are baptized for Christ.
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Paul was already firm in his teaching that Christ rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Then he moves on to his next premise - "Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?" Maybe the "dead" in verse 29 is a reference to Christ, not other Christians or Jews who died without faith in Christ. "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all?"
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Do you believe the Book of Mormon account in 3 Nephi 23:7-13? "And it came to pass that he said unto Nephi: Bring forth the record which ye have kept. And when Nephi had brought forth the records, and laid them before him, he cast his eyes upon them and said: Verily I say unto you, I commanded my servant Samuel, the Lamanite, that he should testify unto this people, that at the day that the Father should glorify his name in me that there were many saints who should arise from the dead, and should appear unto many, and should minister unto them. And he said unto them: Was it not so? And his disciples answered him and said: Yea, Lord, Samuel did prophesy according to thy words, and they were all fulfilled. And Jesus said unto them: How be it that ye have not written this thing, that many saints did arise and appear unto many and did minister unto them? And it came to pass that Nephi remembered that this thing had not been written. And it came to pass that Jesus commanded that it should be written; therefore it was written according as he commanded".
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The Bible does not teach Buddhist practices were incorporated into Jewish and Christian worship.
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Paul's argument is why this other group were baptizing for the dead if there was no resurrection of the dead.
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After seeing the resurrections that took place in Jerusalem (Matthew 27:52-53), where was it expected to continue in their day?
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We should focus on only those who have heard the gospel and rejected it. God has already extended mercy to them while they lived. And they rejected him. That is why the Book of Mormon refers to mortal life as the probationary period. From the Bible, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment". The rich man in Luke 16 did not get a second chance.
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In the comparison between Adam and Christ, there is one or two groups, depending on how you interpret it. In one case, the resurrection applies to one overall group. All who die will eventually be resurrected. A case for two groups is present if one believes "in Christ" means only those with faith in Christ will be made alive in the sense of eternal life and the other group refers to those who are not "in Christ". The "firstfruits" verse is not the same analogy as given in those being baptized for the dead. It is a difference in number. One group contains 1, Christ. The other group contains more, those who "are Christ's". Both groups comprise the body of Christ, where Christ is the head. The whole chapter (1 Corinthians 15) is about the resurrection of the dead. Some people in Corinth were claiming that there is no resurrection (verse 12). Paul is arguing that "Why are you being baptized for the dead if they don't believe in a resurrection?" It could have been some other fringe group that believed in being baptized for their dead ancestors in some form of ritual relationship or binding. There is no implication these living people were Christians who were already baptized and now they were being baptized again for a dead person who was never baptized. No baptisms occurred in the temple. Living disciples were only baptizing believers. That is the principle behind "repent and be baptized".
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That's ok. I mixed them up occasionally since they both start with "P" 🙂
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Right. But it's Paul, not Peter. That group is not his group. That is why he says, "Else what shall we they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are we they then baptized for the dead?" It's reasonable to believe Paul's use of "they" instead of "we" meant that neither he or the Corinthians performed proxy baptisms.
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Alma 40:26 was provided in error. It's Alma 12:16,32. "And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness. Therefore God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption, that they should not do evil, the penalty thereof being a second death, which was an everlasting death as to things pertaining unto righteousness; for on such the plan of redemption could have no power, for the works of justice could not be destroyed, according to the supreme goodness of God".
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Yes. Alma 40:26 also says those who are not redeemed from the second death suffer what is known as "everlasting death".
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You may want to consider this precept: "... and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years".
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Add a few more to those who are not redeemed. They don't have eternal life. "And now, the resurrection of all the prophets, and all those that have believed in their words, or all those that have kept the commandments of God, shall come forth in the first resurrection; therefore, they are the first resurrection. They are raised to dwell with God who has redeemed them; thus they have eternal life through Christ, who has broken the bands of death. And these are those who have part in the first resurrection; and these are they that have died before Christ came, in their ignorance, not having salvation declared unto them. And thus the Lord bringeth about the restoration of these; and they have a part in the first resurrection, or have eternal life, being redeemed by the Lord. And little children also have eternal life. But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection. Therefore ought ye not to tremble? For salvation cometh to none such; for the Lord hath redeemed none such; yea, neither can the Lord redeem such; for he cannot deny himself; for he cannot deny justice when it has its claim" (Mosiah 15:22-27).
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What happened to all the righteous spirits in the paradise side of the spirit world, mentioned in verses 38-49, whom Christ is said to have commissioned to preach the gospel to those in darkness between his death and resurrection?
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Where does Doctrine and Covenants 138:36-37 say the prophets organized other missionaries to preach the gospel in spirit prison during the death and resurrection of Christ and after?
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Let me try again. Doctrine and Covenants 138:36-37 says "Thus was it made known that our Redeemer spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh. That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words". Out of all the faithful men and women in the spirit world where Jesus went after he died, why were only prophets commissioned to preach to those in darkness before his resurrection?
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You seem to think they portray different time periods but you don't explain why.
