telnetd

From the article: Doctrine and Covenants 138:36-37 says "Our Redeemer spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh. That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words". Are Eve and her faithful daughters considered to be these "spirits of the prophets"? Are terrestrials also brought to a state of repentance through their suffering? Verses 58-59 says "The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God. And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation". Does this apply to residents of all kingdoms of glory?

I checked that article. Doctrine and Covenants 138:36-37 says "Our Redeemer spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh. That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words". Are Eve and her faithful daughters considered to be these "spirits of the prophets"? Are terrestrials also brought to a state of repentance through their suffering? Verses 58-59 says "The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God. And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation". Does this apply to residents of all kingdoms of glory?

It was just a thought - "Else what shall they do which are baptized for Christ if Christ did not rise at all?" I had Romans 6:4 in mind. Catholic tradition teaches people can assist the deceased with their purification in purgatory so they can leave temporal punishment and enter heaven. Do souls exit spirit prison when your church performs all the ordinances for them?

Some Corinthians reportedly underwent baptism (perhaps a second time) intending benefit for unbaptized dead, assuming resurrection would apply it retroactively. He responds by pointing out inconsistencies in their beliefs. He neither commands nor endorses this "baptism on behalf of the dead". He simply references it as evidence that even contemporaries act as if resurrection is real. Paul's question is rhetorical, and the implied answer is: "there would have no reason to do it at all". In other words, if the dead do not rise, then being baptized for the dead is pointless and meaningless. According to Catholic tradition, suffrages like Mass, alms, and prayers benefit the dead (especially in purgatory), but not sacraments like baptism. Another way to see it is: "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead [for Christ], if the dead rise not at all? Latter-day Saints, in this ordinance, don't really know if that person being proxied for accepted or rejected it in the spirit world. Here's another rhetorical question: "why trust in baptizing the dead when you don't know if that baptism was accepted?" The implied answer: you pretend or hope it was.

No. What shall we do if Christ is not risen? We shall remain in the grave. We shall have no hope. He is not arguing their baptism for their faith in Christ proves the resurrection really occurred.

The account says they were resurrected and appeared to beings in the highest division of the celestial kingdom. Unless they saw Jesus and no one else while there. "And the Lord said unto Enoch: Look, and he looked and beheld the Son of Man lifted up on the cross, after the manner of men; And he heard a loud voice; and the heavens were veiled; and all the creations of God mourned; and the earth groaned; and the rocks were rent; and the saints arose, and were crowned at the right hand of the Son of Man, with crowns of glory; And as many of the spirits as were in prison came forth, and stood on the right hand of God; and the remainder were reserved in chains of darkness until the judgment of the great day". That didn't happen as is described in Matthew 27:52-53. They were not caught up to the Son's right hand. Was Enoch's prophecy about one resurrection in one geographical place or multiple resurrections across the world?

Paul is saying that the living being baptized for faith in Christ is not worth the danger they are placing themselves in if Christ is not risen. For some, he used the term "else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all?" Focus on "what shall they do". What shall we do if Christ is not risen? We shall remain in the grave. We shall have no hope. He is not arguing their baptism for their faith in Christ proves the resurrection really occurred.

Ok. So a prophecy of Samuel was given that could not be verified by the Nephites. Moses 7 used the phrase "and the earth groaned; and the rocks were rent". Enoch, a mortal, saw it. He also saw the saints being resurrected but doesn't limit this to only two people groups. Using your form of interpretation, the event of 3 Nephi 8:18 was not verified by the Nephites either. "And the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth".

Is Ethan Smith's View of Hebrews inspired by God?

Add one more. "... all we must do".

I don't take the Book of Mormon as a historical document. But it seems even those in Enoch's time knew about future local or worldwide resurrections (Moses 7:55-57). Much of its themes and events has been copied from the Bible.

I don't know. Joseph Smith did the same in the Pearl of Great Price, Moses 7:55-57. "And the Lord said unto Enoch: Look, and he looked and beheld the Son of Man lifted up on the cross, after the manner of men; And he heard a loud voice; and the heavens were veiled; and all the creations of God mourned; and the earth groaned; and the rocks were rent; and the saints arose, and were crowned at the right hand of the Son of Man, with crowns of glory; And as many of the spirits as were in prison came forth, and stood on the right hand of God; and the remainder were reserved in chains of darkness until the judgment of the great day". What is not clear if this is a local resurrection or worldwide resurrections. It seems the saints from paradise were taken to the right hand of God in the highest division of the celestial kingdom and the rest remained in spirit prison awaiting their judgment.

Christ was not baptized as a proxy for a dead person. We (the living) are baptized unto a living Christ as a outward sign of an inward expression of our faith in his atoning work. Being baptized for the dead (for Christ, or in other words for our faith in him) is of no benefit if Christ is not reason. That is what I believe is Paul's point of the question he posed.

The account in 3 Nephi 23:7-13 is some prophecy of Samuel the Lamanite. Matthew's version is not a prophecy so I wouldn't say Joseph Smith copied it into the Book of Mormon.

The living who are baptized for Christ.

Paul was already firm in his teaching that Christ rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Then he moves on to his next premise - "Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?" Maybe the "dead" in verse 29 is a reference to Christ, not other Christians or Jews who died without faith in Christ. "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all?"

Do you believe the Book of Mormon account in 3 Nephi 23:7-13? "And it came to pass that he said unto Nephi: Bring forth the record which ye have kept. And when Nephi had brought forth the records, and laid them before him, he cast his eyes upon them and said: Verily I say unto you, I commanded my servant Samuel, the Lamanite, that he should testify unto this people, that at the day that the Father should glorify his name in me that there were many saints who should arise from the dead, and should appear unto many, and should minister unto them. And he said unto them: Was it not so? And his disciples answered him and said: Yea, Lord, Samuel did prophesy according to thy words, and they were all fulfilled. And Jesus said unto them: How be it that ye have not written this thing, that many saints did arise and appear unto many and did minister unto them? And it came to pass that Nephi remembered that this thing had not been written. And it came to pass that Jesus commanded that it should be written; therefore it was written according as he commanded".

The Bible does not teach Buddhist practices were incorporated into Jewish and Christian worship.

Paul's argument is why this other group were baptizing for the dead if there was no resurrection of the dead.

After seeing the resurrections that took place in Jerusalem (Matthew 27:52-53), where was it expected to continue in their day?

We should focus on only those who have heard the gospel and rejected it. God has already extended mercy to them while they lived. And they rejected him. That is why the Book of Mormon refers to mortal life as the probationary period. From the Bible, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment". The rich man in Luke 16 did not get a second chance.

In the comparison between Adam and Christ, there is one or two groups, depending on how you interpret it. In one case, the resurrection applies to one overall group. All who die will eventually be resurrected. A case for two groups is present if one believes "in Christ" means only those with faith in Christ will be made alive in the sense of eternal life and the other group refers to those who are not "in Christ". The "firstfruits" verse is not the same analogy as given in those being baptized for the dead. It is a difference in number. One group contains 1, Christ. The other group contains more, those who "are Christ's". Both groups comprise the body of Christ, where Christ is the head. The whole chapter (1 Corinthians 15) is about the resurrection of the dead. Some people in Corinth were claiming that there is no resurrection (verse 12). Paul is arguing that "Why are you being baptized for the dead if they don't believe in a resurrection?" It could have been some other fringe group that believed in being baptized for their dead ancestors in some form of ritual relationship or binding. There is no implication these living people were Christians who were already baptized and now they were being baptized again for a dead person who was never baptized. No baptisms occurred in the temple. Living disciples were only baptizing believers. That is the principle behind "repent and be baptized".

That's ok. I mixed them up occasionally since they both start with "P" 🙂

Right. But it's Paul, not Peter. That group is not his group. That is why he says, "Else what shall we they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are we they then baptized for the dead?" It's reasonable to believe Paul's use of "they" instead of "we" meant that neither he or the Corinthians performed proxy baptisms.

Alma 40:26 was provided in error. It's Alma 12:16,32. "And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness. Therefore God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption, that they should not do evil, the penalty thereof being a second death, which was an everlasting death as to things pertaining unto righteousness; for on such the plan of redemption could have no power, for the works of justice could not be destroyed, according to the supreme goodness of God".