telnetd

Thank you, but the question was about Joseph's seed.

He did in that case.

Come Follow Me is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 124 this week. 37-39 - "And again, verily I say unto you, how shall your washings be acceptable unto me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name? For, for this cause I commanded Moses that he should build a tabernacle, that they should bear it with them in the wilderness, and to build a house in the land of promise, that those ordinances might be revealed which had been hid from before the world was ... are ordained by the ordinance of my holy house, which my people are always commanded to build unto my holy name". Why is Moses the example used to show that God has always commanded his people to build tabernacles or temples? Why not name any people prior to him? 42-43 - "And I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house, and the priesthood thereof, and the place whereon it shall be built. And ye shall build it on the place where you have contemplated building it, for that is the spot which I have chosen for you to build it". It seems like God did not make the choice all by himself but rather chose the place for the house that was already contemplated by Joseph or others. 49 - "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings". The books of Ezra, Haggai, and Nehemiah show that God instructed certain people to rebuild the temple and the walls of Jerusalem and protected them through all the persecution they suffered. There is mention of God's protection or encouragement in the Bible (Ezra 5:5; Haggai 1:13, 2:5; Nehemiah 2:8, 4:20) but not for the Nauvoo House. 57-58 - "For this anointing have I put upon his head, that his blessing shall also be put upon the head of his posterity after him. And as I said unto Abraham concerning the kindreds of the earth, even so I say unto my servant Joseph: In thee and in thy seed shall the kindred of the earth be blessed". What anointing was placed on Joseph Smith's lineage and how have the kindred of the earth been blessed through his seed? For this, I reference the other sect called the Community of Christ. They have significant differences in scriptural canon, priesthood, leadership, temple practices, and theology. In these ways they view the main group as apostates. 92-94 - "That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people, That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. And from this time forth I appoint unto him that he may be a prophet, and a seer, and a revelator unto my church, as well as my servant Joseph". Is this the only time two people concurrently held the keys to bind and loose? Do one or more people hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all God's people today and does he/they still utter curses or has another revelation been given to stop the cursing?

I noticed another change in 2025 for the Doctrine and Covenants heading. Section 119—Deleted “The Lord had previously given to the Church the law of consecration and stewardship of property, which members (chiefly the leading elders) entered into by a covenant that was to be everlasting. Because of failure on the part of many to abide by this covenant, the Lord withdrew it for a time and gave instead the law of tithing to the whole Church. The Prophet asked the Lord how much of their property He required for sacred purposes. The answer was this revelation.” Changed it to the following: “This revelation came after the Saints had suffered financial challenges in Missouri and Ohio due to the construction of the Kirtland Temple; persecutions in Jackson County, Missouri; and a nationwide financial crisis. The Saints were also continuing to build up communities in Missouri.” (This removes the implication that the law of consecration was replaced by the law of tithing and is no longer in effect. It also gives more context about the financial challenges the Saints were experiencing at the time.) The church maintained the other notes in this section. 1–5, The Saints are to pay their surplus property and then give, as tithing, one-tenth of their interest annually; 6–7, Such a course will sanctify the land of Zion. I observe that all surplus property was the original form of the tithing of the people (verses 1,3). "Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion ... And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people". It appears that giving a tenth was not a law of the church until 1838 and later stems out of the consecration of their surplus property first. "And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord" (verse 4). This was required for all who would gather to Zion, which was the land of Missouri. "Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you" (verse 5). The purpose for this type of consecration, referred to as tithing, (which included the tenth) was to sanctify the land of Zion, keep it holy, and to make Missouri the land of Zion for the saints. "And I say unto you, if my people observe not this law, to keep it holy, and by this law sanctify the land of Zion unto me, that my statutes and my judgments may be kept thereon, that it may be most holy, behold, verily I say unto you, it shall not be a land of Zion unto you" (verse 6). Are there any revelations given after section 119 which show that a change to only giving a tenth would also sanctify the land of Zion? The original Introduction notes say "The law of tithing, as understood today, had not been given to the Church previous to this revelation". Why did the church not believe in giving a tenth prior to 1838? Did the church believe all the Old Testament references to tithing did not apply to it? Repeating what the section notes still says: "1–5, The Saints are to pay their surplus property and then give, as tithing, one-tenth of their interest annually; 6–7, Such a course will sanctify the land of Zion". But tithing originally meant giving their surplus property. That's what verse 3 is teaching. "... And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people". Giving a tenth of the interest only comes after the original tithe (their surplus). Verse 4 teaches that.

Regarding the modification to section 111. "Section 111—Changed “the leaders of the Church were heavily in debt due to their labors in the ministry” to “the Church and its leaders were heavily in debt due to the construction of the Kirtland Temple and persecutions in Missouri.” Changed “would be available” to “might be available.” (This gives more context on what motivated the Church’s leaders to travel to Salem.)" The change in words "would be available" to "might be available" does not agree with what is actually recorded in the revelation. "I have [NOT I might have] much treasure in this city for you, for the benefit of Zion, and many people in this city, whom I will gather out in due time for the benefit of Zion, through your instrumentality. Therefore, it is expedient that you should form acquaintance with men in this city, as you shall be led, and as it shall be [NOT might be] given you. And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give [NOT I might give] this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be [NOT might be] yours.

Come Follow Me is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 121–123 this week. Some questions about these verses. Doctrine and Covenants 121:28: "... A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest". At the time of this petition or prayer from Joseph Smith (March 1839), why were the Latter-day Saints in doubt as to the number when 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 says "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him"? Were their doubts alleviated when they learned about an infinite regression of Gods and their potential for exaltation to Godhood? Doctrine and Covenants 121:30-31: "... And also, if there be bounds set to the heavens or to the seas, or to the dry land, or to the sun, moon, or stars—All the times of their revolutions, all the appointed days, months, and years, and all the days of their days, months, and years, and all their glories, laws, and set times, shall be revealed in the days of the dispensation of the fulness of times". What is the difference between the colored items? Does "all their glories" mean a number greater than 3? Assuming we are in this dispensation now and it ends when Jesus returns, why is it necessary for God to give us such information during this period?

The kingmen were supported by those of high birth (51:8). They don't take up arms in rebellion even as the Lamanites come to fight the Nephites. "And it came to pass that when the men who were called king-men had heard that the Lamanites were coming down to battle against them, they were glad in their hearts; and they refused to take up arms, for they were so wroth with the chief judge, and also with the people of liberty, that they would not take up arms to defend their country". Moroni then sends his army to fight the kingmen. "And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty". Only then do the kingmen fight Moroni's army, but in self-defense. "And it came to pass that the armies did march forth against them; and they did pull down their pride and their nobility, insomuch that as they did lift their weapons of war to fight against the men of Moroni they were hewn down and leveled to the earth". 4000 kingmen were killed and the others yielded to Moroni to preserve their lives. The kingmen and their supporters who were not killed became prisoners and were then forced to fight for their freedom (51:21).

I see one possible scenario in Alma 51. The King-Men opposed the democratic rule of judges and wanted to install a king, siding with the Lamanites. When the Lamanites invaded, these King-Men refused to take up arms to defend their country. Moroni petitioned the government for the authority to compel them to fight or execute them for treason. The government granted his request. Moroni sent his army, and 4000 King-Men were killed and others were imprisoned; the rest were forced to fight for their freedom.

Come Follow Me is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 115-120 in the upcoming week. Some questions about these verses. D&C 115:6 - "And that the gathering together upon the land of Zion, and upon her stakes, may be for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth". The land of Zion is again mentioned in 117:14, 118:2, and 119:5-6. Is this a reference to all of Missouri? D&C 115:13 - "Verily I say unto you, let not my servant Joseph, neither my servant Sidney, neither my servant Hyrum, get in debt any more for the building of a house unto my name". Were these three the only ones restrained from entering into debt for that purpose? D&C 117:16 - And again, verily I say unto you, let all my servants in the land of Kirtland remember the Lord their God, and mine house also, to keep and preserve it holy, and to overthrow the moneychangers in mine own due time, saith the Lord. Even so. Amen. Is the sin of moneychangers applied to individuals in Kirtland who corrupted sacred things by mixing spiritual leadership with greed, power-seeking, or financial manipulation involving church resources and the temple?

According to the Introduction notes, they didn't find the treasure they were hoping for so they returned. When it became apparent that no money was to be forthcoming, they returned to Kirtland. Mentioned again in the Religion 324-325 seminary manual, chapter 44. In the summer of 1836, the Prophet Joseph Smith and other Church leaders were deeply concerned about the Church’s finances. In the preceding years the Church had accumulated heavy debts as Church leaders had obeyed the Lord’s commandments to build the Kirtland Temple, to purchase lands in Ohio and Missouri, and to fund Zion’s Camp. The Church also needed funds to buy land for Church members in Missouri who had been forced from their homes. In 1834 the Lord had instructed the Prophet and other Church leaders to “pay all [their] debts” (D&C 104:78). However, they had been unable to do so because they had lost income-producing businesses, such as Sidney Gilbert’s store and William W. Phelps’s printing office in Independence, Missouri. Fifty-three years after the Prophet Joseph Smith and his companions visited Salem, Massachusetts, Ebenezer Robinson, a former Church member, wrote an account regarding this visit. He claimed that a Church member named Brother Burgess came to Kirtland, Ohio, in 1836 and “stated that a large amount of money had been secreted in the cellar of a certain house in Salem, Massachusetts, which had belonged to a widow, and he thought he was the only person now living, who had knowledge of it, or the location of the house” (in The Joseph Smith Papers, Documents, Volume 5: October 1835–January 1838, 274). It is possible that the Prophet Joseph Smith and other Church leaders heard Brother Burgess’s claim and decided to travel to Salem, Massachusetts, to search for the hidden money so they could pay some of the Church’s debts. According to Robinson’s account, Brother Burgess met the brethren in Salem but could not identify the house where the money was hidden because he no longer recognized the city, and he left Salem soon thereafter (see The Joseph Smith Papers, Documents, Volume 5: October 1835–January 1838, 274). The Prophet Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery, and Hyrum Smith leased a house in Salem and spent the next several weeks preaching the gospel, visiting local historical sites, and trying to obtain a treasure that could help pay their debts. On August 6, 1836, one day after arriving in Salem, the Prophet Joseph Smith received the revelation recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 111. It was not published in the Doctrine and Covenants during the Prophet’s lifetime. It was first included in the 1876 edition (see The Joseph Smith Papers, Documents, Volume 5: October 1835–January 1838, 277).

I'm not seeing how the words in the phrase "... the leaders of the Church were heavily in debt due to their labors in the ministry. Hearing that a large amount of money would be available to them in Salem" could be interpreted as referring to spiritual debts and spiritual treasures.

Come Follow Me this week is discussing Doctrine and Covenants 111-114. The Introduction Notes for section 111 has this: Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Salem, Massachusetts, August 6, 1836. At this time the leaders of the Church were heavily in debt due to their labors in the ministry. Hearing that a large amount of money would be available to them in Salem, the Prophet, Sidney Rigdon, Hyrum Smith, and Oliver Cowdery traveled there from Kirtland, Ohio, to investigate this claim, along with preaching the gospel. The brethren transacted several items of Church business and did some preaching. When it became apparent that no money was to be forthcoming, they returned to Kirtland. Several of the factors prominent in the background are reflected in the wording of this revelation. There is a prophecy in verse 4. "And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours". Does this wealth discovery and power over Salem have any bearing on them building new temples in the Millennial period or is this future wealth required to build the city and temple in the New Jerusalem in Missouri? Was this gold and silver concealed by God in his foreknowledge of the many sins of the Twelve and their rebellion against Joseph Smith that was recorded approximately a year later in Doctrine and Covenants 112:12,14-15?

Doctrine and Covenants says John was baptized while yet in his childhood.

I think 1 Peter 4:1-7 can be about preaching to those Gentiles who are physically alive but spiritually dead. See Romans 6:1-8.

What does "that they might be judged according to men in the flesh" mean?

Are they judged by men or by Christ on the final judgment as you mentioned earlier ?

Which men in the flesh are they being judging according to?

Isn't that the point? They are given an equal opportunity to learn about and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ so they can be judged by the same standard. Why is there a "but" to that? Is Doctrine and Covenants 138:10 a judgment of the living on earth or the deceased in the spirit world?

Why wasn't the phrase "chains of hell" used instead for the other spirits who died without a firm testimony of Jesus? How did Satan beguile Adam?

Doctrine and Covenants 138:18,23 is an further description of those righteous who died firm in their testimony of Christ (verses 12-17). "While this vast multitude waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death, the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful ... And the saints rejoiced in their redemption, and bowed the knee and acknowledged the Son of God as their Redeemer and Deliverer from death and the chains of hell".

Doctrine and Covenants 138:10 speaks of their being judged according to men in the flesh but these are the dead people in the spirit world, not those living a mortal life on earth. This just shows the terrestrials did not receive the gospel and its ordinances. It includes those in the two lower parts of the celestial kingdom because they had not lived according to God in the spirit for they came up short. Here's an example of what the verse seems to say. You have people who doesn't know math. All that don't know math before they die but who would have known math if they had been permitted to live longer would be credited with a math degree. They don't need to know math after they die because God's foreknowledge credits them with that degree. Same for a little child who never went to school and never knew any school subjects. Multiple people can post on the same subject without being the same person. But I'm amused by your conspiracy theories. Do you have one from November 3, 2020?

It's also interesting that only these are in the chains of hell. "And the saints rejoiced in their redemption, and bowed the knee and acknowledged the Son of God as their Redeemer and Deliverer from death and the chains of hell". The rebellious and transgressors are the disobedient ones of 1 Peter 3:18-19. “By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water". (138:8-9).

If atheists or people from other religions heard the key truths of the gospel (the atonement of Christ, baptism, and repentance) and rejected these and then died, what other truths would they then hear in the spirit world and obey to live according to God in the spirit? You're missing the fact that all who don't obey all the ordinances are not living in accordance to God because they do not inherit all that God had in store for them. "And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify them selves that they might be a judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit" (v. 34). Verse 35 continues: "And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross". These unrighteous ones (the unjust) are the ones who perished in the days of Noah, whom Christ is said to have visited in earlier verses (7-10). "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water ” (1 Peter 3:18–20 ) For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit" (1 Peter 4:6 ) The term "judged according to men in the flesh" seems to apply to both those living in mortality and those in the spirit world.

@InCognitus also mentioned that part about being judged according to men in the flesh. Doctrine and Covenants 138:34 says "And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit". Do they just have to know all the principles of the gospel or do they also have to keep and perform all the principles of the Gospel to qualify themselves to be judged according to men and live according to God in the spirit? Who but those who return to live with God in the highest part of the Celestial Kingdom are viewed as living according to God in the spirit?

"This life" is mortal life. The probationary state is also called the preparatory state in Alma 42:13. Alma 34:35 speaks of a final, endless state for those who had died in an unrepentant state: "For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked. Verse 32 again refers to it as "this life". "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors".