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2 Minor Book Of Mormon And Book Of Abraham Tidbits


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#1 Olavarria

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 03:45 PM

1)The Egyptian Religion during the time and place our JS Papyri originate(Greco-Roman period, Thebes) was highly eclectic and incorporated some Judeo-Christian elements. Book.

2)There is a sunken Mayan city at the bottom of Lake Attitlan; this kind of stuff happens in Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon.

That is all.
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#2 volgadon

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 03:47 PM

1)The Egyptian Religion during the time and place our JS Papyri originate(Greco-Roman period, Thebes) was highly eclectic and incorporated some Judeo-Christian elements. Book.


I've put together quite a nice collection of references on that.
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#3 Duncan

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:49 PM

I've put together quite a nice collection of references on that.


interesting, most interesting!
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"On a surprising number of occasions as a professor of religion at the Brigham Young University, I had returned missionaries object to something being taught that was new to them by saying, "How can this possibly be true? I have been a member of the Church my whole life, I am returned missionary, and I have never heard this before!" Thus their understanding has become the standard by which the truth of all things is to be measured"

Joseph Fielding McConkie, Between the Lines:Unlocking Scripture with Timeless Principles, 157


#4 Darren10

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:14 PM

olavarria;

1)The Egyptian Religion during the time and place our JS Papyri originate(Greco-Roman period, Thebes) was highly eclectic and incorporated some Judeo-Christian elements. Book.

2)There is a sunken Mayan city at the bottom of Lake Attitlan; this kind of stuff happens in Mesoamericaand the Book of Mormon.

That is all.


From your link:

She goes on, "Researchers believed the area, 50 feet below the lake’s surface, was once an island until a catastrophic event, such as a volcanic eruption or landslide, raised water levels. The rising lake covered the buildings around A.D. 250. Lead archaeologist Sonia Medrano said that researchers had found six ceremonial monuments, four altars and religious paraphernalia, which indicate it was 'an extremely important place from a spiritual point of view.'"


A highly spiritual place (or rather, a place where religious worship was emphasized) and round A.D. 250. Here's from the Book of Mormon:

8 Yea, even that great acity Zarahemla did they cause to be built again.
9 But there were many cities which had been asunk, and waters came up in the stead thereof; therefore these cities could not be renewed.


(4 Nephi 1 - from A.D. 35-321)


Interesting point.
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#5 ANACO

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:42 PM

"The rising lake covered the buildings around A.D. 250"
Must have been a later time than that mentioned in the BoM.

Kind regards.
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#6 Olavarria

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 09:09 PM

1) The texts in that book make reference to Greek, Egyptian and Hebrew figures and gods. As well as entire phrases in Hebrew. The lamp divination spells, together, refer to the Greek gods, Egyptian gods and the Israelite God, patriarchs and figures in the hypocephali.

2)I'm not claiming that the city in Attitlan is Nephite, just showing an example of BoM type phenomenon in Meso.
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#7 Duncan

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 09:55 PM

I think that sunken city shows that cities were sunk as shown in the Book of Mormon
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"On a surprising number of occasions as a professor of religion at the Brigham Young University, I had returned missionaries object to something being taught that was new to them by saying, "How can this possibly be true? I have been a member of the Church my whole life, I am returned missionary, and I have never heard this before!" Thus their understanding has become the standard by which the truth of all things is to be measured"

Joseph Fielding McConkie, Between the Lines:Unlocking Scripture with Timeless Principles, 157


#8 Olavarria

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:44 PM

1) I'm no Egyptologist; so the most I can say is that some texts from Thebes, from the GA period, featured an amalgamation of Jewish and Egyptian motifs. The Prophet owned papyri from GR Thebes and produced an amalgation of Jewish and Egyptian motifs.

2)Exactlty
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#9 Olavarria

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:46 PM

*GR Period
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#10 cursor

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:06 AM

There is a sunken Mayan city at the bottom of Lake Attitlan; this kind of stuff happens in Mesoamericaand the Book of Mormon.


In 2002 my father wrote the following:

The Submergence of the City of Jerusalem in the Land of Nephi
By John L. Sorenson

In touring southern Guatemala, many FARMS patrons traveled west of the capital city to visit Lake Atitlán, one of the most photogenic spots in Central America. Tour guides have told thousands that the beautiful "waters of Mormon" beloved by Alma and his people (see Mosiah 18:30) might well be Lake Atitlán. The Nephite record also tells us that a city called Jerusalem, which was constructed by Lamanites led by Nephite dissenters, was located "away joining the borders of Mormon" (Alma 21:1-2).

Twenty-five years ago John Sorenson suggested that the city of Jerusalem most plausibly fits into Mesoamerican geography if it is considered to have been located on the south shore of Lake Atitlán.[1] A scientific paper published in Guatemala in 2000 by two Guatemalans experienced in underwater archaeology, Henry Benítez and Robert Samayoa, supports that idea with dramatic new evidence.[2]

Third Nephi 9:7 reports that immediately after the great series of physical catastrophes that accompanied the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the Lord's voice out of the heavens told the Nephites that "the city of Jerusalem and the inhabitants thereof" had been covered by water ("waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof"), an event that took place within a matter of hours.

Part of the data Sorenson used to frame his proposal was a report from geologists of "long-term periodic fluctuations in [Lake Atitlán's] level which seem to be due to shiftings of deep-seated fissures, variously opening and closing outlets."[3] The lake owes its existence to the growth of the three volcanoes on its south shore that block normal stream drainage, leaving only subterranean outlets through the lava "dam." Changes in the level of the lake of up to 15 feet per year were reported in historical documents in Spanish, but no evidence of a sudden rise or fall was known until recently.

Benítez and Samayoa report a submerged site, which they call Samabaj, just off the lake's south coast, not far from Santiago Atitlán. House foundations of hewn stone are located at a depth of 17 meters (about 55 feet) below the present lake level. The building remains are situated atop what was once a steep-sided island about 300 meters across and a couple hundred meters offshore. Obviously, when the place was settled and the houses constructed, the lake level had to have been at least 17 meters lower than it is now. The submerged island drops off sharply on either side to a depth of 80 meters or more beneath today's lake level. Exploration by the divers has also demonstrated that at times in the past the surface of the lake was even lower—as much as 60 meters beneath the present surface (as shown, for example, by remnant beach terraces).

Scuba divers have mapped the underwater ruined settlement, giving careful attention to the orientation of the buildings, and have found that it includes at least three groups of buildings with walls marked by well-hewn stones. The area called Group III features a large building (about 9 by 26 meters, or 30 by 77 feet) that appears to have once had a stairway up one side of it. A smoothed basalt stela, or standing monument, had been erected in front of the stairway. The archaeologists consider this large building to have been the political-administrative center of the ancient settlement.

The divers also concluded that the submergence of Samabaj beneath the lake waters had been comparatively sudden, for they could observe little damage to the structures from wave action (much damage would be expected if the submergence process had been prolonged).

Until further work is done (the human and material resources at the disposal of these men, working without any institutional funding, have limited their ability to explore further) the archaeologists refrain from trying to date this ruin. However, some finds in the Atitlán area indicate that settlers lived in the vicinity since before the time of Christ,[4] and the smoothed stela at Samabaj points to a date possibly earlier.

At the least we can say that if the apostate New World city of Jerusalem did sit adjacent to Lake Atitl‡n, we now can understand how it could have been covered up by rising water in a matter of a few hours, as 3 Nephi indicates.

Notes

1. John L. Sorenson, An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book and FARMS, 1985), 223-25. The position was first put in writing in a manuscript widely distributed in photocopy form between 1977 and 1984.
2. Henry Benítez and Roberto Samayoa, "Samabaj y la arqueología subacuática en el Lago de Atitlán," in XIII Simpósio de Investigaciones Arqueológicas en Guatemalad, 1999 (Guatemala: Museo Nacional de Arqueología y Etnología, 2000), 2:849-54.
3. Felix Webster McBryde, Cultural and Historical Geography of Southwest Guatemala, Smithsonian Institution, Institute of Social Anthropology Publication
4 (Washington D.C.: 1945), 132-33. 4. Samuel K. Lothrop, Atitlán, Carnegie Institution of Washington Publication 444 (Washington, D.C.: 1933).


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#11 cursor

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:40 AM

I've located a 55-min video that gives a great deal of detail regarding the submerged city at Atitlán. The presentation was in 2009 and it is in Spanish.

Samabaj and Underwater Archeaology in Lake Atitlán

c o n t e n t s
+ Initial credits
+ Words of welcome
+ Lake Atitlán
+ Gold Hill
+ Water level at Samabaj
+ Photographs of the lake
+ Actual water levels at Atitlán
+ Project beginning: learning to dive
+ Archaeology in Atitlán
+ Sonar surveys on Lake Atitlan
+ Samabaj sonar image
+ Sonar image of the first discoveries
+ Expanded view of the findings
+ Underwater video
+ Images of fallen stelae
+ Acknowledgements
+ Questions, answers and comments
+ Final credits

Edited by cursor, 24 July 2012 - 01:29 PM.

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#12 cinepro

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:42 AM

Interesting. I wonder if cities, like people and planets, must also have baptism by immersion...?
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In spite of the world's arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God's prophets.

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#13 cursor

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:08 PM

Here is a PDF of the 1999 Benítez & Samayoa paper (in Spanish):
http://www.asociacio...z_y_Samayoa.pdf

[ See note 2, from post #10, above ]
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#14 rodheadlee

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:33 PM

Very cool! I love these discussions.
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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

I've located a short video (in English) that introduces the Samabaj discovery: [ link ]
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#16 Olavarria

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

The BoM fits in meso like no where else.
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#17 cinepro

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:13 PM

The BoM fits in meso like no where else.


I agree.
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The LDS Stake Medium Council Blog

In spite of the world's arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God's prophets.

The Flood and the Tower of Babel, by Donald W. Parry, assistant professor of Hebrew at BYU, Ensign, Jan 1998, 35

#18 poulsenll

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:40 PM

Me too!
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#19 altersteve

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:05 PM

Very interesting!
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#20 blackstrap

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:34 AM

Interesting. I wonder if cities, like people and planets, must also have baptism by immersion...?


There are some kids that could have used a little longer submergence.Also ,I don't think one is fully baptised until one has emerged from the burial.
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