HairBear Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 Sounds to me like the Teacher made a mistake. We have lesson materials and the Qur'an is not one of them. We are supposed to use the materials provided and not our own stuff.It wasn't as if he had brought a Qur'an into the classroom, he just quoted something that he had read in it that supported the principle he as teaching from the lesson.
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 It wasn't as if he had brought a Qur'an into the classroom, he just quoted something that he had read in it that supported the principle he as teaching from the lesson.I suppose, if it was a lack of preparation and a spontaneous quote -- that is the sort of thing anyone might do. I have, I am sure, done it countless times -- hopefully as I have matured not as much and more by accident. But if it were a prepared part of the lesson, that's sort of a bad idea.
HairBear Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 What exactly is the important difference in your mind?We are the only true Church. We are the only living Church. We are the only True and living Church.As I have heard from critics, to say we are the only true Church implies that all the other churches are untrue (i.e. totally false). I'm not saying that that is what is meant by the verse, or that we believe that everything in all other religions is false, just that some people think that by saying we are the only true church it means that we believe all other churches are totally false.
HairBear Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 I suppose, if it was a lack of preparation and a spontaneous quote -- that is the sort of thing anyone might do. I have, I am sure, done it countless times -- hopefully as I have matured not as much and more by accident. But if it were a prepared part of the lesson, that's sort of a bad idea.It was a spontaneous quote. My point was that the source made others feel uncomfortable, not actually what the quote said.
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 As I have heard from critics, to say we are the only true Church implies that all the other churches are untrue (i.e. totally false). They are all untrue. That is the message of the Restoration. But that is not the same thing as saying that everything that they teach is false. And I have never heard any member of the Church make a statement to that effect. I have lived and gone to Church in 4 different countries, multiple states of the USA, in several score different Wards and never heard that.I don't think it is an area where we need to be concerned. As a Church we have always said that we welcome truth from where ever it may come. At the same time... none of the other Churches is true.
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 It was a spontaneous quote. My point was that the source made others feel uncomfortable, not actually what the quote said.On a separate note... your teacher must be fairly well read to spontaneously quote the Quran.
HairBear Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 On a separate note... your teacher must be fairly well read to spontaneously quote the Quran.I know he's read it, (so have I), but I think that he can only quote a few short passages, the ones that have caught his attention, and this particular passage just came back to him while he was teaching the lesson. He's a close friend and we discuss quite a lot of Gospel themes.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Sorry about your health. Hope it is temporary.We have talked about this before, and I am convinced that the scripture is almost never misunderstood. We are in THE ONLY TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH.There is no other True and Living Church on the Face of the Whole Earth.Coming from God this "sounds" harsh...coming from us; really harsh.
Damien the Leper Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Proper priesthood authority... and revelation through modern day prophets holding that authority.yes, I know they claim to have that authority... my testimony is in the restoration of priesthood authority through Joseph...As for the scripture quoted, it does not say we have ALL and the ONLY truth, period... our leaders have never said that there isn't any truth in other churches. Rather, they've spoken from the beginning about finding truth wherever it is, including in other faiths... and like quoted above, inviting others to bring their truth and let us add to that truth.GGSo YOU say and so our CHURCH claims. But do you absolutely know without a doubt that what you say is true? Can you prove such through verifiable evidence and logical reasoning? Can you do so without circular argument by quoting latter-day scripture to support your argument?Circular arguments would be such:-quoting D&C-quoting JS-quoting other church leadersI believe that God has called me to the LDS church because that is what HE wants for me. But I do not believe that God calls everyone to the same religious movement as myself. 2
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Coming from God this "sounds" harsh...coming from us; really harsh.Oh well.. darn our luck! I guess we should just be ashamed and hide.
Damien the Leper Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Coming from God this "sounds" harsh...coming from us; really harsh.It is and it is. I agree with Kevin's interpretation moreso than the traditional interpretation. 1
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I believe that God has called me to the LDS church because that is what HE wants for me. But I do not believe that God calls everyone to the same religious movement as myself.Generally speaking God calls everyone to Repent and Be Baptized by proper authority into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.However, if someone were to tell me that God revealed to them that they should not be LDS, I would accept that. Having considered the matter at length, I do not believe it is proper for me to interject myself between God and another person, plus, I accept that it is possible there are some people God does not want in His Church.
Damien the Leper Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Generally speaking God calls everyone to Repent and Be Baptized by proper authority into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Can you show evidence of this claim without circular argument?However, if someone were to tell me that God revealed to them that they should not be LDS, I would accept that. Having considered the matter at length, I do not believe it is proper for me to interject myself between God and another person, plus, I accept that it is possible there are some people God does not want in His Church.How Calvinistic of you...I'm glad that God is not an elitist. 1
blackstrap Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 There are also other ,"other sheep" ,and assuming that they are still in a group and still on earth, some of them will still be following the Lord's commands even though they may not be part of the current LDS membership. 2
blackstrap Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Generally speaking God calls everyone to Repent and Be Baptized by proper authority into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.However, if someone were to tell me that God revealed to them that they should not be LDS, I would accept that. Having considered the matter at length, I do not believe it is proper for me to interject myself between God and another person, plus, I accept that it is possible there are some people God does not want in His Church.There are 6.5 billion of God's children currently on this earth.Our Church has little to no influence on billions of them. IMHO God will choose and utilize people of all faithsand beliefs to further the plan of salvation. I would prefer to say "God does not require some people to be in His Church at this time." 3
Damien the Leper Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 There are also other ,"other sheep" ,and assuming that they are still in a group and still on earth, some of them will still be following the Lord's commands even though they may not be part of the current LDS membership.There are 6.5 billion of God's children currently on this earth.Our Church has little to no influence on billions of them. IMHO God will choose and utilize people of all faithsand beliefs to further the plan of salvation. I would prefer to say "God does not require some people to be in His Church at this time."Hallelujah! 1
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Can you show evidence of this claim without circular argument?Not by your false definition of what is circular reasoning.
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 How Calvinistic of you...I'm glad that God is not an elitist.Nothing Calvinistic about it. However, God is sort of an elitist. Its the plan that only some make it.
Tacenda Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Hallelujah!If it's true that our membership in the United States is less than 2%, I'll second that Hallelujah! I often wonder how or when we are ever going to finish the temple work for billions of people. If it's true that we do need to do this in order for them to make it to the CK, then we need to turn every one of our chapels into a temple during the week and on Saturdays. Edited July 16, 2012 by Tacenda
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 There are 6.5 billion of God's children currently on this earth.Our Church has little to no influence on billions of them.That is irrelevant to what God has declared.IMHO God will choose and utilize people of all faithsand beliefs to further the plan of salvation. Hmmm.. thats sure an opinion all right! I don't really understand why people who are LDS are so afraid of the Restoration of the Gospel being committed only into the hands of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is a key component of the message.
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 If it's true that our membership in the United States is less than 2%, I'll second that Hallelujah! I often wonder how or when we are ever going to finish the temple work for billions of people. If it's true that we do need to do this in order for them to make it to the CK, then we need to turn every one of our chapels into a temple during the week and on Saturdays.This is in the plans.
blackstrap Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I have done the rough calculations as to how much time it will take to do the work for all those that have passed away. Suprisingly, a couple hundred years will do it.Mind you,that assumes a 12 hr work day and a few more temples ,but still.
Tacenda Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) I have done the rough calculations as to how much time it will take to do the work for all those that have passed away. Suprisingly, a couple hundred years will do it.Mind you,that assumes a 12 hr work day and a few more temples ,but still. And here I thought I'd be spending the millennium doing their work. Edited July 16, 2012 by Tacenda
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I have done the rough calculations as to how much time it will take to do the work for all those that have passed away. Suprisingly, a couple hundred years will do it.Mind you,that assumes a 12 hr work day and a few more temples ,but still.Curious. How many people did you estimate to have passed away?
hagoth7 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 ...We know, however that we are the ONLY TRUE and LIVING Church with which the Lord is Well Pleased. President Benson said that rather than the Lord being pleased, the church was under condemnation. 1
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