Inspired Fiction - Did Joseph Smith Believe He Was Translating Real Records?

[mfbukowski]

21 hours ago, manol said:

I don't know how it all began.  Immanent creation invites the question, where did the matter used for creation come from to begin with?   At the risk of coming across like a first-grader (and a slow one at that) who presumes to have insights into stochastic calculus...

Matter arises from energy (M=E/C^2 is a re-writing of E= MC^2), and energy arises from vibration (E = HC/L, where H = the Planck constant, L = wavelength, and C is once again the speed of light).  My point being, if you connect the dots, matter is a form of vibrational energy.

The spoken (or sung) Word is also a form of vibrational energy.   

Yes I know, I'm conflating two different worlds.  That won't be the last time it happens in this post.

My "theology" has an open canon which includes near-death experiences, and I've read and/or heard multiple near-death experiencers describe what the material universe is made of at its most fundamental sub-atomic level:  They say matter is made of the vibrational energy of love. 

Of course I have no idea how the "vibrational energy of love" is transmuted from the non-physical world into the physical world, into tiny subatomic bits of matter, but maybe there is a mechanism we don't yet know about.  I suppose if one takes the miracle of the loaves and fishes literally, such is not completely out of the question.  (As an aside, note that near-death experiencers consistently report that "there" [what we would call the "non-physical world"] is actually far more real than "here".)

For the sake of discussion, consider this:  If you grow the energy of love in your heart, is there not just a tiny bit more love energy in the universe than there was before?  So... if love energy can be "created", and if (at God's level) that love energy can be transmuted into some form of physical matter, we have a hypothetical first stage in the process of creation which does not require pre-existing matter. 

Imo "organizing" matter into specific physical forms is a different stage of the process, and I think this is the stage Genesis is talking about. 

And, imo there is more of the "vibrational energy of love" in words sung than in words spoken.

IF, at its most fundamental sub-atomic level, matter is the vibrational energy of love that was (or is being) sung into existence by God, then maybe the word "uni-verse" is one of those "Freudian slips" you mentioned. 

I'm pickin' up good vibrations...

HA!   Yeah, it can be hard to figure out.

But honestly, mixing metaphors is fun but really leads nowhere.   It's like someone using some scientific gizmo to measure some "vibes" of a men and women to find a wife!  There is no "universal wife" who got the gold medal and now is the "GOAT"- greatest of all time- wife ever in the history of mankind.   And of course I also mean husband- but I am a male heterosexual and naturally see things from that perspective.

Vibes may be "real" because one thinks they are- they are "real" in his life BECAUSE it motivates the thinker in some way.

For me the pre-existing matter question is not a problem at all- it is still mixing myths.  For me "myth" is just a different perspective created by humans- a certain way of thinking.  But that is a very long story we could get into if you want to.

For me, "creating" is taking existing matter (it's a little hard to work with non-existing matter,  ) and "creating" a painting or a house, or a business, or anything deliberately beautiful- whatever that means- or useful- whatever THAT means- which other humans will look at and pronounce said "creation" AS beautiful or useful or fun or .... whatever!!-  Rabbit or Duck?-  from Wittgenstein-  I can't squish this down on this device, or I would have!

It's all perspectives all the way down!  

Edited August 5, 2024 by mfbukowski

[manol]

26 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Rabbit or Duck?

Yes!  It is a Rabbit or Duck. 

Edited August 5, 2024 by manol

[InCognitus]

39 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

HA!   Yeah, it can be hard to figure out.

But honestly, mixing metaphors is fun but really leads nowhere.   It's like someone using some scientific gizmo to measure some "vibes" of a men and women to find a wife!  There is no "universal wife" who got the gold medal and now is the "GOAT"- greatest of all time- wife ever in the history of mankind.   And of course I also mean husband- but I am a male heterosexual and naturally see things from that perspective.

Vibes may be "real" because one thinks they are- they are "real" in his life BECAUSE it motivates the thinker in some way.

For me the pre-existing matter question is not a problem at all- it is still mixing myths.  For me "myth" is just a different perspective created by humans- a certain way of thinking.  But that is a very long story we could get into if you want to.

For me, "creating" is taking existing matter (it's a little hard to work with non-existing matter,  ) and "creating" a painting or a house, or a business, or anything deliberately beautiful- whatever that means- or useful- whatever THAT means- which other humans will look at and pronounce said "creation" AS beautiful or useful or fun or .... whatever!!-  Rabbit or Duck?-  from Wittgenstein-  I can't squish this down on this device, or I would have!

It's all perspectives all the way down!  

I've posted this before, but discerning the real identity of that image has always been influenced by personal bias:

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, InCognitus said:

I've posted this before, but discerning the real identity of that image has always been influenced by personal bias:

LOL!  An excellent observation!