One in five young adult mormons self-identify as gay/Lesbian/Bisexual

[Meadowchik]

On 7/2/2021 at 2:27 AM, Hamba Tuhan said:

why some of us have such hangups about the gender of our sexual partners.

Ah. Those hangups go both ways, don't they? Societies attempting to control the gender of sexual partners is another way to look at it.

Some people may say that since genders of partners don't matter so much, that a rule saying "all sexual pairings must be hetero" is justifiable.

There's some irony in that. It's a way of saying something shouldn't matter to someone when it does, even when it matters so much more to the partners themselves than others who have an opinion about their relationship.

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Meadowchik

[Meadowchik]

On 7/1/2021 at 4:18 AM, The Nehor said:

Compared to how we view it today that is quite a gap.

Now, though, marriage equality provides the structure where agape and eros can be accommodated regardless of the participants' gender. Thus it is less rigid, and more adaptive in the ways you and Hamba Tuhan mention, and more. All the while allowing those who favour the hetero-procreative model to follow it if they wish.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Meadowchik

[The Nehor]

18 hours ago, let’s roll said:

After reading The Nehor’s last two posts on this thread I started wondering whether I enjoy him more when he’s in provocateur mode or illuminator mode.  I’m just happy that we’ll likely continue to see him in both modes.

Thanks to you, The Nehor, for all your contributions on this board.

Sardonic me is the one that lives in my head most of the day. The Illuminator mode means at some point I went into ADHD hyperfocus mode about the topic, often ignoring more important things, and spent hours or days studying something obsessively.

Thanks though.

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Now, though, marriage equality provides the structure where agape and eros can be accommodated regardless of the participants' gender. Thus it is less rigid, and more adaptive in the ways you and Hamba Tuhan mention, and more. All the while allowing those who favour the hetero-procreative model to follow it if they wish.

It does cut out other things though. The current model doesn’t allow for arranged marriages or marriages for companionship without erotic love. I mean, it sort of does in that you can do it, but the paradigm means it is less likely they can happen and that their will be low social approval for it if they are open about it. That doesn’t seem like much of a disadvantage because the whole paradigm we are under suggests that those are suboptimal or bad reasons for a marriage and they even seem barbaric but it was the way we did things for centuries in many cultures.

I am not suggesting we should go back to it but we miss a lot of the story if we don’t see the closed doors behind us. We also miss out on how our descendants will likely view us. I remember an old science fiction story. In it there was a future where rape on a romantic date was legal for either party and the ‘victim’ was expected to comply if it happened. It was not done often but the thrill of knowing it could was part of the excitement of dating. It was considered prudish to think otherwise. The author wasn’t presenting it as a good thing. The shock value to the reader was the point. I am not suggesting that will be the future. It will likely be even weirder and more disconcerting.

Edit: I wanted to put a comic here illustrating what I imagine it will be like to be a curmudgeonly old person in the brave new world but the one I wanted to use was more offensive than I remember it being. Which is its own example of the same concept I suppose.

Edited July 2, 2021 by The Nehor

[Hamba Tuhan]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The Illuminator mode means at some point I went into ADHD hyperfocus mode about the topic, often ignoring more important things, and spent hours or days studying something obsessively.

I'm just grateful that someone finally read the links I keep providing!

[Meadowchik]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It does cut out other things though. The current model doesn’t allow for arranged marriages or marriages for companionship without erotic love. I mean, it sort of does in that you can do it, but the paradigm means it is less likely they can happen and that their will be low social approval for it if they are open about it. That doesn’t seem like much of a disadvantage because the whole paradigm we are under suggests that those are suboptimal or bad reasons for a marriage and they even seem barbaric but it was the way we did things for centuries in many cultures.

The current model allows for those too, just less built in enforcement for one way. That's pluralism. 

Subcultures within the whole are still free to create social structures to enforce their way. Or, perhaps better, be less concerned about enforcement and more promotional: improving their own structures and therefore the merit of their way.

Kinda makes you wonder how many people throughout time died inside as they were carried in the current of the prevailing culture when it didn't allow them to seek what was better for them.