Calm Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Duncan said: ou hear sometimes about people about to commit suicide or even do and they have this NDE or something that prevents it and they come back. Then you wonder about what happened to people that completed suicide and never came back, i Maybe everyone who dies unless their body is too damaged gets the choice and the ones who don’t come back choose to stay. Not talking about those who kill themselves, I don’t want to attach any storyline given there are too many ways and reasons to twist intentionally or not what is said in damaging ways.
rockpond Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 Fascinating data... 1 in 5 LDS Millenials and 1 in 4 LDS GenZ'ers identifying as LGBTQ! It does make me wonder if the rate of being physiologically LGBTQ has increased or if the acceptance and ability to identify it has increased. I suspect that a good portion of them will settle into a heterosexual relationship. Despite increased acceptance, I think that if one is equally drawn to both sexes, you're more likely to want to marry heterosexually and have the option of biological children. But maybe that's my own cultural conditioning and preference speaking. 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 Don’t believe this, but @Daniel2, how did they come to this conclusion. Question #1; How many “how many “Young adults” are there in the 17,000,000 members, and how many we contacted and replied to this survey? Also, the other %’s, how many were contacted and replied? After all, if we (or whomever) are going to make this claim, should not all be given the opportunity to set the record straight (no pun intended). After all this is not politics, and these are not exit polls. So, other than the graphs you listed, should we not be sure, rather than unfairly label those who are not Gay, as such. It is hard to believe that 20% of all our youth are Gay. As 1 in 5, I believe is 20%. I haven’t posted here in months, so I might just read any replies. My health problems as of late are serious, so I need to focus on other things right now, positive things.
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 3 hours ago, rockpond said: It does make me wonder if the rate of being physiologically LGBTQ has increased or if the acceptance and ability to identify it has increased. About 20 years ago, I read a scholarly analysis of how the politically motivated decision to ground the gay rights movement on a 'physiological' argument contained within it the seeds of its own inevitable deconstruction. We may be seeing the early stages of that development. 2
Calm Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: About 20 years ago, I read a scholarly analysis of how the politically motivated decision to ground the gay rights movement on a 'physiological' argument contained within it the seeds of its own inevitable deconstruction. We may be seeing the early stages of that development. https://www.ted.com/talks/dr_lisa_diamond_why_the_born_this_way_argument_does_not_advance_lgbt_equality?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare 1
Calm Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said: My health problems as of late are serious, Sorry to hear, Bill. I had been wondering why we weren’t seeing you. 1
Calm Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, rockpond said: Fascinating data... 1 in 5 LDS Millenials and 1 in 4 LDS GenZ'ers identifying as LGBTQ! It does make me wonder if the rate of being physiologically LGBTQ has increased or if the acceptance and ability to identify it has increased. I suspect that a good portion of them will settle into a heterosexual relationship. Despite increased acceptance, I think that if one is equally drawn to both sexes, you're more likely to want to marry heterosexually and have the option of biological children. But maybe that's my own cultural conditioning and preference speaking. Having a legacy, especially to pass down through one’s biological child, is a big deal in many cultures outside of Western. At times the legacy is one’s children. It is huge if a culture is strong into ancestral rites. Edited June 23, 2021 by Calm 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Calm said: https://www.ted.com/talks/dr_lisa_diamond_why_the_born_this_way_argument_does_not_advance_lgbt_equality?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare The researcher who wrote the piece that I read was very pro-equality and worried that the movement had traded away sustainable, long-term progress for the exciting rush of early legal success. Edited June 23, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan 1
Calm Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: The researcher who wrote the piece that I read was very pro-equality and worried that the movement had traded away sustainable, long-term progress for the exciting rush of early legal success. She is quite the activist in my link as well. I doubt she has the doom mentality (I forgot I hadn’t quite finished watching it...dog or doctor or dinner interrupted...), as she sees the major US legal decisions being based on rationality (is there a rational reason for discrimination or not) anyway, so the legal protections will not be challenged in her view I am guessing. Added: She points out that “Born that Way” throws bisexuals under the bus (which is ironic as they are a much bigger proportion of the LGBT+), it is an unjust paradigm, protects those who are consistently exclusive but backfires for bisexuals because they are accepted as gay if they are seen as having no choice, but when they then later in their lives have a heterosexual partner, they fear and do get rejected because others who accepted them because that was all they could be now feel lied to, etc. There is also prejudice against bisexuals among many gays who view them as not really part of their community. Edited June 23, 2021 by Calm
why me Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 Once the church wrote the Proclamation of the Family, it is more or less tied to that Proclamation. But we now see that that Proclamation is under threat by the direction society is taking. I cannot see the church reversing the Proclamation because of the rise in gender orientation or sexual preference. Back in the day, and I am referring to decades ago, the church was very strict about moral issues. Less so now. It has more understanding of the forces out there to undermine its Proclamation and the sexual norms the church exposes. If the church does shift to accommodate new norms it will be interesting just how members would react. In a different post, the writer spoke about some in the younger generations leaving the church because of new norms in society and the church's stance with regards to the family unit and sexuality. Swim upstream or downstream? 1
The Nehor Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: For the exact same reason/s that there will be no envy or backbiting or gossip in the Telestial Kingdom, either. As the Book of Mormon overtly teaches, one cannot be saved in sin, only from sin. What is sin in a fallen world is not necessarily sin elsewhere. I am not saying you are wrong and I am right. I am just saying I am not convinced either way.
The Nehor Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Duncan said: I've wondered about that too. You hear sometimes about people about to commit suicide or even do and they have this NDE or something that prevents it and they come back. Then you wonder about what happened to people that completed suicide and never came back, it seemed like to some people were God is indifferent, "yeah, it's okay he killed himself but she no way!!!!! i'll give her an option" Why did try to prevent this person and not that person? both used their agency in this manner and one it sent back and the other not? I suspect it is run on a combination of God’s discretion and/or laws we do not understand so we couldn’t explain why there is intervention in one case and not in another. Could be anything from some leftover premortal blessing to the specific level of accountability they have to God just knowing whether it would help in the long run or not. 2
The Nehor Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: About 20 years ago, I read a scholarly analysis of how the politically motivated decision to ground the gay rights movement on a 'physiological' argument contained within it the seeds of its own inevitable deconstruction. We may be seeing the early stages of that development. Why? Proving it is not physiological would do what exactly?
Meadowchik Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: The researcher who wrote the piece that I read was very pro-equality and worried that the movement had traded away sustainable, long-term progress for the exciting rush of early legal success. And yet I don't see an overarching dependency on it. Some say "born this way," some say "love is love," many don't bother with either. This movement is not defined by a few, neither by its advocates or detractors. One could say that it is a rather automatic consequence of human beings experiencing less authoritarian control over their lives. 3
why me Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: . This movement is not defined by a few, neither by its advocates or detractors. One could say that it is a rather automatic consequence of human beings experiencing less authoritarian control over their lives. Is Heavenly Father authoritarian? If we go back in time, religion played a major role in many people's lives in the christian world and many lived their lives accordingly. There was god's law. Less so now. Are people reacting against an authoritarian god? Discovering their freedom with god? And is this a good sign? When I was young either catholic or lds I was told this is how god wants me to live. If not, I would go to hell or outer darkness or end up in the telestial kingdom. And now? Just live and let live. Much has changed. Edited June 23, 2021 by why me
Meadowchik Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, why me said: Is Heavenly Father authoritarian? Good question. I don't know. 28 minutes ago, why me said: If we go back in time, religion played a major role in many people's lives in the christian world and many lived their lives accordingly. There was god's law. Less so now. I am not convinced that any humans know the answer to the question, nor that any have competently spoken for God, ever. 28 minutes ago, why me said: Are people reacting against an authoritarian god? Discovering their freedom with god? I think it's fair to say that as religion becomes detached from government, science, and community, people everywhere are experiencing less constraints which previously passed as God's, whether they were or not. 29 minutes ago, why me said: And is this a good sign? Freedom of religion means that people are free to leave one (possibly false) religion to join another (possibly true) religion. It also means freedom from religion. Is freedom to choose a good thing? I think it ultimately is. 37 minutes ago, why me said: When I was young either catholic or lds I was told this is how god wants me to live. If not, I would go to hell or outer darkness or end up in the telestial kingdom. Yes, that sounds familiar. I don't think devotion out of fear is a good way to choose one's path. 38 minutes ago, why me said: And now? Just live and let live. Much has changed. I think that individual freedom is ultimately the best spiritual path. And if there is a God, and if God communicates truth to humankind, then I see just as much chance, even a better chance, of people experiencing God when they can do so freely. People want to be happy. They tend to want to advance. Life generally tends to progress. In the context of the thread specifically, I am convinced that people are capable of experiencing healthy and loving relationships and identities, even if they're not heteronormative and even if they're not traditionally gender-conforming. Of course people are still people, and still struggle and suffer. Yet communities like the LDS Church can do much more to help everyone when genuine love and health is encouraged and honored, not turned away at the door. 2
Daniel2 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Posted June 24, 2021 Interesting…. Apparently there’s an unofficial BYU Pride March being planned. https://www.instagram.com/p/CQe16ZIh91t/?utm_medium=copy_link 1
Daniel2 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Posted June 24, 2021 On 6/22/2021 at 7:27 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said: Don’t believe this, but @Daniel2, how did they come to this conclusion. Question #1; How many “how many “Young adults” are there in the 17,000,000 members, and how many we contacted and replied to this survey? Also, the other %’s, how many were contacted and replied? After all, if we (or whomever) are going to make this claim, should not all be given the opportunity to set the record straight (no pun intended). After all this is not politics, and these are not exit polls. So, other than the graphs you listed, should we not be sure, rather than unfairly label those who are not Gay, as such. It is hard to believe that 20% of all our youth are Gay. As 1 in 5, I believe is 20%. I haven’t posted here in months, so I might just read any replies. My health problems as of late are serious, so I need to focus on other things right now, positive things. Hey, PaPa, I’m so sorry to hear about your health challenges and wish you continued ongoing healing and strength. As for your questions, the article and a subsequent link shared earlier in this thread explain the study’s methodologies and conclusions, but I completely understand and support your need to prioritize your own well-being going forward, rather than topics that can detract from that. Be well and all the best, D 2
carbon dioxide Posted June 24, 2021 Posted June 24, 2021 The CDC says the total LGBT population to be about 5%. Something is off here. 1
carbon dioxide Posted June 24, 2021 Posted June 24, 2021 On 6/22/2021 at 4:58 PM, Hamba Tuhan said: For the exact same reason/s that there will be no envy or backbiting or gossip in the Telestial Kingdom, either. As the Book of Mormon overtly teaches, one cannot be saved in sin, only from sin. Since the Holy Ghost is said to be able to dwell in the Telestial Kingdom, that would suggest an atmosphere where people are living righteously enough for that. 2
carbon dioxide Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 On 6/22/2021 at 6:30 PM, rockpond said: Fascinating data... 1 in 5 LDS Millenials and 1 in 4 LDS GenZ'ers identifying as LGBTQ! It is one study that I don't put much weight on. However the numbers could be increasing. We are exposed to so many chemicals in our day to day lives that perhaps it is messing up our biology in ways we don't understand.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 On 6/22/2021 at 12:40 PM, Tacenda said: I think there are true, no matter what people that know what gender they are, or what they are attracted to exactly. And then there are those that could choose to be bi or gay, either one. But weren't given the option growing up, especially with strong religious ties that teach against it and then those people are pretty much molded into that mindset, unless they are given the go ahead it's okay option. So that might be the reason there is an increase in the numbers. It's because it's become more acceptable in the world. Sick or not, it would seem I feel the need to chime in, at least on this topic, since I have a Gay child. Is it not the responsibility, of our Church to teach what we believe as a Faith? Even more so, for a Church that believes itself to be the “true, and living Church upon the earth? After all, any Faith who is ordained of, and by the Almighty God, would be under serious condemnation for not teaching Biblical doctrine, which is quite clear on such topics. We also teach certain truths about sin, and the nature of sin, and the folly of the many shortcomings of the “Natural Man”, while also teaching the rewards and the encouragement of being, or becoming the “Spiritual Man”? We do not wish to be guilty of the “sin of omission”, no more than committing openly, “sins of commission”, as neither are pleasing to God our Father. We need and want the cleansing blood, granted by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. At least I seek for this, through both Obedience, and through both prayer, and the saving Sacrament. I seek it now more than ever, as I currently am “walking through the valley of death”. I have been saved and delivered many times before, let us hope that I will be delivered once again. Either way, I am living as I should, and prepared for any outcome.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 On 6/23/2021 at 12:25 AM, Calm said: Sorry to hear, Bill. I had been wondering why we weren’t seeing you. Thank you, as always you are loving and kind. I am blessed with Faith, and the love and prayers of many who love me. This is not the first time I have been this sick, and let us hope it is not the last. Either way, I do need to focus on other things, as I will be occupied elsewhere for a time. However during my absence, please pray for me. I am even posting less on Facebook, although posting (or forwarding) a lot of Christian music, and so politically charged things when upset. But mostly, Christian music and videos, for obvious reasons. I wish I knew how to post them here. Be well, ole friend. 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Daniel2 said: Hey, PaPa, I’m so sorry to hear about your health challenges and wish you continued ongoing healing and strength. As for your questions, the article and a subsequent link shared earlier in this thread explain the study’s methodologies and conclusions, but I completely understand and support your need to prioritize your own well-being going forward, rather than topics that can detract from that. Be well and all the best, D Thank You for your concern.
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