Space Travel

[Bob Crockett]

44 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Somehow I'm getting the sense that what you have a problem with is the idea of having a governing body\group of people making some choices.  Is that right?  Have you had some bad experiences involving some people making some choices and that because of those bad experiences you are now averse to the idea of any group/body of people making some choices?

I don't like some things some people choose to do either but I am not averse to the idea of having some group of people making some choices,. We all need to make choices and it can be better for people to make choices together than in isolation.

Consuming energy isn't necessarily a bad thing and it can sometimes be good to consume more energy than to consume less.  Especially when a supply of energy is much greater than a supply of resources.

Just because I preach the libertarian view does not mean that I've "had a a problem" with somebody.  Typical of many of this board.  Don't be typically absurd.  My influences are Milton Friedman, Joseph Smith, William F. Buckley, Amartya Sen, Ronald Reagan and The Economist.

Basically, anything the private sector can do, the government will simply screw it up with corruption and inefficiency:  Space travel, public universities, hospitals, energy production, health care.   The government has to do so some things, but it will screw it up with corruption and inefficiency.  Just because I hold this view, which is a reasoned view based upon economic principles (I taught economics at the university level) does not mean I have been offended by somebody.  

I take it back.  Every time I have to go to the DMV and see the clerks sitting on their a*** I get offended.  Every time I have to call the Medicare line, I get offended.  Every time I have to seek a permit or an inspection for one of my building projects, I get offended.  (In California, we hire private "expeditors" to stand in line and wait for inspections.)  Every class I took at a public university, I got offended at the laziness of the faculty and the staff.  When I taught at a public university, I was offended by the laziness of the staff.   When I was a bishop and had to go to the ER in a hospital (heavily regulated) to visit members, only to find them in gurneys in the hall, I get offended.  When I have to stand in line at the courthouse to make a filing, I get offended by the long lines and the trivial nonsensical rules.  When I have to come through customs into the United States, I am offended by the four-hour wait.  I am offended by the fact that we have brown outs and black outs in California.  That my clients have to build solar and wind projects which benefit sluggards. 

What is the reason a hairdresser must have a state license?  

Edited December 4, 2020 by Bob Crockett

[Ahab]

11 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Just because I preach the libertarian view does not mean that I've "had a a problem" with somebody.  Typical of many of this board.  Don't be typically absurd.  My influences are Milton Friedman, Joseph Smith, William F. Buckley, Amartya Sen, Ronald Reagan and The Economist.

Basically, anything the private sector can do, the government will simply screw it up with corruption and inefficiency:  Space travel, public universities, hospitals, energy production, health care.   The government has to do so some things, but it will screw it up with corruption and inefficiency.  Just because I hold this view, which is a reasoned view based upon economic principles (I taught economics at the university level) does not mean I have been offended by somebody.  

I take it back.  Every time I have to go to the DMV and see the clerks sitting on their a*** I get offended.  Every time I have to call the Medicare line, I get offended.  Every time I have to seek a permit or an inspection for one of my building projects, I get offended.  (In California, we hire private "expeditors" to stand in line and wait for inspections.)  Every class I took at a public university, I got offended at the laziness of the faculty and the staff.  When I taught at a public university, I was offended by the laziness of the staff.   When I was a bishop and had to go to the ER in a hospital (heavily regulated) to visit members, only to find them in gurneys in the hall, I get offended.  When I have to stand in line at the courthouse to make a filing, I get offended by the long lines and the trivial nonsensical rules.  When I have to come through customs into the United States, I am offended by the four-hour wait. 

I'm trying to empathize and I think I may be somewhat close to imagining what you are talking about... which I would still characterize as you having some kind of a problem with what somebody or what some governing group of people has chosen to do.

You say you get offended with some clerk at the DMV office when you see him or her sitting on [what people normally sit on] because, I suppose, if you were in charge, you would just do what you want without anyone's else's governing approval.

So it seems to me that what you don't like is having to answer to some governing/controlling group of people in charge of that particular realm of responsibility in favor, supposedly, of the general public welfare.

So what is your proposed alternative?  Total anarchy?  Nobody but you determining what you can or should do in the public domain? I admit I think that idea has some general appeal to many people but if everybody was let loose to do whatever they wanted to do I think we would have many more problems to deal with and then what?... each of us struggling it out on our own without any organizing influence to put some people in charge of specific things in the interest of the public welfare?

[Bob Crockett]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

I'm trying to empathize and I think I may be somewhat close to imagining what you are talking about... which I would still characterize as you having some kind of a problem with what somebody or what some governing group of people has chosen to do.

You say you get offended with some clerk at the DMV office when you see him or her sitting on [what people normally sit on] because, I suppose, if you were in charge, you would just do what you want without anyone's else's governing approval.

So it seems to me that what you don't like is having to answer to some governing/controlling group of people in charge of that particular realm of responsibility in favor, supposedly, of the general public welfare.

So what is your proposed alternative?  Total anarchy?  Nobody but you determining what you can or should do in the public domain? I admit I think that idea has some general appeal to many people but if everybody was let loose to do whatever they wanted to do I think we would have many more problems to deal with and then what?... each of us struggling it out on our own without any organizing influence to put some people in charge of specific things in the interest of the public welfare?

Let me assure you that libertarianism is not about being offended by some DMV clerk. It is a well-established body of economic thought trumpeted by the University of Chicago.  Ronald Reagan's economic advisers were libertarian.  It is simply wrong for the government to say, hey, we can make shoes cheaper than Nike and Addidas and so we will.  According to mathematical (quantitative) economic theory, it is virtually impossible for government to do so.  That idea flows to almost everything the government does.  But it is driven by beaucratic malaise.  My comments about being offended by the DMV are merely tongue in cheek.  

Libertarians do not teach "total anarchy."  There are many, many people in the Republican Party and some in the Democratic Party who believe in libertarian philosophy.  I'd say the Book of Mormon advocated a primitive version of libertarian thought as did Joseph Smith.   

Do you want freedom to worship?  To buy goods?  To respond to horrific viruses? Or do you want the government to tell you what to do?

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Just because I preach the libertarian view does not mean that I've "had a a problem" with somebody.  Typical of many of this board.  Don't be typically absurd.  My influences are Milton Friedman, Joseph Smith, William F. Buckley, Amartya Sen, Ronald Reagan and The Economist.

Basically, anything the private sector can do, the government will simply screw it up with corruption and inefficiency:  Space travel, public universities, hospitals, energy production, health care.   The government has to do so some things, but it will screw it up with corruption and inefficiency.  Just because I hold this view, which is a reasoned view based upon economic principles (I taught economics at the university level) does not mean I have been offended by somebody.  

I take it back.  Every time I have to go to the DMV and see the clerks sitting on their a*** I get offended.  Every time I have to call the Medicare line, I get offended.  Every time I have to seek a permit or an inspection for one of my building projects, I get offended.  (In California, we hire private "expeditors" to stand in line and wait for inspections.)  Every class I took at a public university, I got offended at the laziness of the faculty and the staff.  When I taught at a public university, I was offended by the laziness of the staff.   When I was a bishop and had to go to the ER in a hospital (heavily regulated) to visit members, only to find them in gurneys in the hall, I get offended.  When I have to stand in line at the courthouse to make a filing, I get offended by the long lines and the trivial nonsensical rules.  When I have to come through customs into the United States, I am offended by the four-hour wait.  I am offended by the fact that we have brown outs and black outs in California.  That my clients have to build solar and wind projects which benefit sluggards. 

What is the reason a hairdresser must have a state license?  

I agree that government is prone to inefficiency. I have just yet to see any strong evidence that private enterprise is more efficient.

[Bob Crockett]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I agree that government is prone to inefficiency. I have just yet to see any strong evidence that private enterprise is more efficient.

So socialists argue.  However I would say the proofs are in Amartya Sen, Development as Freedom, who won the Nobel.   As well as standard quantitative proofs. 

Think about it.  The most derelict stupid people go into government service. Some are smart, but as a group, they are lacking.   Can't make it as a building contractor?  Become a building inspector.  Can't get a job as a professor at a private university?  Go to public university or, better yet, a community college.  Wanna be a bureaucrat?  The world is waiting for you.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Bob Crockett

[Ahab]

16 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Do you want freedom to worship?  To buy goods?  To respond to horrific viruses? Or do you want the government to tell you what to do?

The government (people in a governing body or group) can tell me whatever they want to tell me.  I recognize their freedom to do so.  To freely express what they think and what they want from others.  Likewise I also recognize my own freedoms to do anything I have the power to do.  One freedom does not infringe upon the other.  We are all free to do whatever we have the power to do and it usually works out a lot better if we all work together.

[The Nehor]

12 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Think about it.  The most derelict stupid people go into government service. Some are smart, but as a group, they are lacking.

This has not been my experience.

12 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Can't make it as a building contractor?  Become a building inspector.

Both important jobs.

12 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Can't get a job as a professor at a private university?  Go to public university or, better yet, a community college.

As someone who went to a public university....ouch. Also I have seen far too many private universities that are a scam to believe this is a generally true comparison. If you limit private universities to Ivy Leagues and the "good ones" sure they come out on top but throw in Devry, Trump University, just about any video game making or cooking school and suddenly public colleges don't look so bad.

12 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Wanna be a bureaucrat?  The world is waiting for you.

Do I EVER!!!!!!! Sadly I'm underqualified.