United in Accomplishing God's Work by President Bingham

[nuclearfuels]

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/04/34bingham?lang=eng

So, over the years (Adam and Eve until now) and around the globe, a full understanding of the divinely interdependent and yet differing contributions and responsibilities of women and men largely disappeared. Females in many societies became subservient to males rather than side-by-side partners, their activities limited to a narrow scope. Spiritual progress slowed to a trickle during those dark times; indeed, little spiritual light could penetrate minds and hearts steeped in traditions of dominance.

So the Bible, BoM, and other religions' scriptures were...not heeded or insufficent?  Perhaps those with the Bible and BoM, historically, were exceptions to the average person?   

I suppose one could claim the BoM = many examples of people not following the commandments (if we exclude the 200 years after the Savior visited, in order to lend more credence to President Bingham's claim)  but is the pride cycle attributable to traditions of dominance? 

In 1842, when the women of the fledgling Church wanted to form an official group to help in the work, President Joseph Smith felt inspired to organize them “under the priesthood after the pattern of the priesthood.”4 He said, “I now turn the key to you in the name of God … —this is the beginning of better days.”5 And since that key was turned, educational, political, and economic opportunities for women have begun to gradually expand throughout the world.6

So the RS led to women's rights...because the polygamist sister wives organized to get women the right to vote and helped spread the idea of women's rights around the world? Not sure this stands up to the facts of the women's rights movement.  

Recently we have been taught that women who are set apart under the direction of one holding priesthood keys operate with priesthood authority in their callings.8 (8 = Elder Oaks, 2014 When a woman—young or old—is set apart to preach the gospel as a full-time missionary, she is given priesthood authority to perform a priesthood function (without being ordained and without having the preisthood conferred upon them?). The same is true when a woman is set apart to function as an officer or teacher in a Church organization under the direction of one who holds the keys of the priesthood. Whoever functions in an office or calling received from one who holds priesthood keys exercises priesthood authority in performing her or his assigned duties. (without being ordained and without having the preisthood conferred upon them?). Also from the same address by Elder Oaks: But even though these presiding authorities hold and exercise all of the keys delegated to men in this dispensation, they are not free to alter the divinely decreed pattern that only men will hold offices in the priesthood. Despite this, it's only a matter of time, isn't it?

Returning to President Bingham's address:

Our roles are complementary rather than competitive.

Unity is essential to the divine work we are privileged and called to do, but it doesn’t just happen.

Seeing women as vital participants is not about creating parity but about understanding doctrinal truth.

Men need to become true partners rather than assume they are solely responsible or act as “pretend” partners while women carry out much of the work. (I'm trying to see the unity, complentary roles, and understanding doctrinal truth in this statement.)

Aside from her talk, I'm wondering how her suggestions might be interpreted. Have we as a church simply not understood gender roles correctly? Not that daily scripiture study adn general conference and church on sunday and seminary would have anything to do with our misinterpretation? Or have we just apparently not been courting the right interest groups, within and outside of the church?  Or the transcendent truth of the gospel is diffcult to understand for all of us and we've just been interpreting it incorrectly, despite our many study aides and modern revelation?

So the priesthood then is like wattage in a light bulb - different amounts of it are needed for certain callings at certain times but you dont have to build the bulb not install it to recieve and share the light?  Or is it more like a river - where an office is like a captain (many responsibilities), but many other people serve to keep the ship afloat and navigating correctly?

[Islander]

3 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/04/34bingham?lang=eng

So, over the years (Adam and Eve until now) and around the globe, a full understanding of the divinely interdependent and yet differing contributions and responsibilities of women and men largely disappeared. Females in many societies became subservient to males rather than side-by-side partners, their activities limited to a narrow scope. Spiritual progress slowed to a trickle during those dark times; indeed, little spiritual light could penetrate minds and hearts steeped in traditions of dominance.

So the Bible, BoM, and other religions' scriptures were...not heeded or insufficent?  Perhaps those with the Bible and BoM, historically, were exceptions to the average person?   

I suppose one could claim the BoM = many examples of people not following the commandments (if we exclude the 200 years after the Savior visited, in order to lend more credence to President Bingham's claim)  but is the pride cycle attributable to traditions of dominance? 

In 1842, when the women of the fledgling Church wanted to form an official group to help in the work, President Joseph Smith felt inspired to organize them “under the priesthood after the pattern of the priesthood.”4 He said, “I now turn the key to you in the name of God … —this is the beginning of better days.”5 And since that key was turned, educational, political, and economic opportunities for women have begun to gradually expand throughout the world.6

So the RS led to women's rights...because the polygamist sister wives organized to get women the right to vote and helped spread the idea of women's rights around the world? Not sure this stands up to the facts of the women's rights movement.  

Recently we have been taught that women who are set apart under the direction of one holding priesthood keys operate with priesthood authority in their callings.8 (8 = Elder Oaks, 2014 When a woman—young or old—is set apart to preach the gospel as a full-time missionary, she is given priesthood authority to perform a priesthood function (without being ordained and without having the preisthood conferred upon them?). The same is true when a woman is set apart to function as an officer or teacher in a Church organization under the direction of one who holds the keys of the priesthood. Whoever functions in an office or calling received from one who holds priesthood keys exercises priesthood authority in performing her or his assigned duties. (without being ordained and without having the preisthood conferred upon them?). Also from the same address by Elder Oaks: But even though these presiding authorities hold and exercise all of the keys delegated to men in this dispensation, they are not free to alter the divinely decreed pattern that only men will hold offices in the priesthood. Despite this, it's only a matter of time, isn't it?

Returning to President Bingham's address:

Our roles are complementary rather than competitive.

Unity is essential to the divine work we are privileged and called to do, but it doesn’t just happen.

Seeing women as vital participants is not about creating parity but about understanding doctrinal truth.

Men need to become true partners rather than assume they are solely responsible or act as “pretend” partners while women carry out much of the work. (I'm trying to see the unity, complentary roles, and understanding doctrinal truth in this statement.)

Aside from her talk, I'm wondering how her suggestions might be interpreted. Have we as a church simply not understood gender roles correctly? Not that daily scripiture study adn general conference and church on sunday and seminary would have anything to do with our misinterpretation? Or have we just apparently not been courting the right interest groups, within and outside of the church?  Or the transcendent truth of the gospel is diffcult to understand for all of us and we've just been interpreting it incorrectly, despite our many study aides and modern revelation?

So the priesthood then is like wattage in a light bulb - different amounts of it are needed for certain callings at certain times but you dont have to build the bulb not install it to recieve and share the light?  Or is it more like a river - where an office is like a captain (many responsibilities), but many other people serve to keep the ship afloat and navigating correctly?

In Romans 13:1-2 we read: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."

There is no doubt that all that occurs within the kingdom of God, temporal and spiritual, is governed by His duly appointed authority. Such, as has been delegated and appointed to His servants ordained to the priesthood. Our (human and thus prejudiced) understanding of God's purposes and intent has led to much heartache and injustice over the centuries. Even prophets make mistakes, after all and the scriptures bare witness to that.

What has become increasingly clear is that, under the auspices of the priesthood, the sisters can and do receive specific, clearly defined and measured authority to do service in God's kingdom. A good example is the Temple where the sisters are authorized today, by the priesthood, to perform certain ordinances and duties that in the past were reserved for the brethren. We continue to gain light, truth and understanding today just as in times of old; "line upon line, precept upon precept. 

[The Nehor]

I was going to teach a virtual lesson on this talk on Sunday and I reread it multiple times. Why are you so offended and adversarial about this talk?

[nuclearfuels]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I was going to teach a virtual lesson on this talk on Sunday and I reread it multiple times. Why are you so offended and adversarial about this talk?

Thanks Nehor. In all seriousness, I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Interesting that you're teaching a lesson on this talk. My brother in FL is also having this talk presented on Sunday.

It's not clear to me that claims made in President Bingham's talk are accurate. Most of my questions are in the OP.

Traditions of dominance caused/contributed to the Apostasy? There were achievements and progress between Adam and Eve and Joseph and Emma.

As for parity, the ability to accomplish 99.99% of procreation is not enough, so now the priesthood = inspiration...and being set apart....for every calling.....anyone ever accepted.

So why are we then ordained and conferred the priesthood? It is clearly obtainable and exercise-able by being being set apart....for any calling.....anyone would ever accepted.

I don't understand the difference between a priesthood office vs priesthood authority vs priesthood function.

Seems like what was once called inspiration to fulfill one's calling is now called priesthood..and it's always been the priesthood we just didn't know that - so we didn't study or weren't taught correctly? or...somehow we've just all had wrong groupthink independent of our studies?

Not sure who it is that a Talk like this is aiming at retaining or bringing back. 

Curious, why did you reread the talk many times? I did the same thing, as some parts seem a bit off.  The idea that we can pray and reread talks until we numb our questions out doesn't work for me anymore.

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by nuclearfuels

[let’s roll]

32 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Curious, why did you reread the talk many times? I did the same thing, as some parts seem a bit off.  The idea that we can pray and reread talks until we numb our questions out doesn't work for me anymore.

Have you taken your questions to God?  If so what impression have you had regarding your inquiries?

If not, do you see any reason not to?

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Thanks Nehor. In all seriousness, I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Interesting that you're teaching a lesson on this talk. My brother in FL is also having this talk presented on Sunday.

It's not clear to me that claims made in President Bingham's talk are accurate. Most of my questions are in the OP.

Traditions of dominance caused/contributed to the Apostasy? There were achievements and progress between Adam and Eve and Joseph and Emma.

As for parity, the ability to accomplish 99.99% of procreation is not enough, so now the priesthood = inspiration...and being set apart....for every calling.....anyone ever accepted.

So why are we then ordained and conferred the priesthood? It is clearly obtainable and exercise-able by being being set apart....for any calling.....anyone would ever accepted.

I don't understand the difference between a priesthood office vs priesthood authority vs priesthood function.

Seems like what was once called inspiration to fulfill one's calling is now called priesthood..and it's always been the priesthood we just didn't know that - so we didn't study or weren't taught correctly? or...somehow we've just all had wrong groupthink independent of our studies?

Not sure who it is that a Talk like this is aiming at retaining or bringing back. 

Curious, why did you reread the talk many times? I did the same thing, as some parts seem a bit off.  The idea that we can pray and reread talks until we numb our questions out doesn't work for me anymore.

 

I was going to teach a lesson. It was cancelled.

Gender roles have been poisoned since the Fall and yes, they have been been are part of apostasy. Suggesting that Joseph and Emma were closer to understanding the true nature of gender than Adam and Eve seems unlikely. Adam and Eve saw a better state. And yes, they have it wrong. We all still do but we are striving to get more knowledge to do better. Until we have seen male and female Gods we are unlikely to get it fully. Women (and men) are treated better by each otherwhere the true gospel is and the more gospel there is the better it goes. Since this is the fullest dispensation we can expect the best from those who follow it.

If you are unhappy with what Sister Bingham taught as the doctrine of the Priesthood you should take it up with President Oaks first. He taught it publicly first with the consent of the other apostles. The truths behind the teaching are correct and always have been but we did not speak in that way or understand it as well until the apostles clarified and expanded our view of the Priesthood. There is nothing she taught the apostles have not taught. It is also not a competition. Read Elder Oaks talk. He was more explicit about what it means to hold Priesthood office and how one can exercise Priesthood power without an office through delegation and through the ordinances of the temple.

I read it several times because that is how I prep lessons. I speed read by nature so I have to read it a few times to catch nuances. It was not disconcerting. There was one thing in this new understanding of the Priesthood I had been taught years before and I was glad I could finally openly talk about it.

[nuclearfuels]

Thanks Nehor, Islander, and Let's Roll. I appreciate you taking the time to share your views with me.

I bugged my wife about it (many times) and she explained to me that priesthood offices are eternal, successive and not temporary whereas callings (for males and females) are temporary and non-linear (excluding the exceptions to the rules- father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, Twelve, First Presidency).  She also said it might be brought up more frequently now as an olive leaf or compromise w/ some who want women to hold the priesthood, it might be a: this is the line we'll go to but we're not changing doctrine. If you want women to have the priesthood, here's the ways in which they already have...since the first Temple was built. I for one would welcome more women helping members of the ward move in and out of the ward as often happens in my area. 

My wife also mentioned that when she served a mission, she was told she would be borrowing the priesthood from her mission president to fulfill a priesthood duty. 

In Sacrament meeting, one person presides. One person conducts, 6 deacons pass the Sacrament, 2 or 3 priests bless it, some people speak but all rejoice and are edified together...and are inspired / exercise the priesthood they exercise.

I'm not really worried about the claims being made because doctrine is doctrine, and the Atonement, the Savior, and His priesthood are eternal and infinite.

...and the Parable of the Laborers / Workers in the Vineyard, I imagine, might be used in future addresses to help the hesitant, such as myself, understand infinite resources aren't anything to be jealous of. 

If God had an infinite amount of food and gave others more than He gave you, He still has an infinite amount, so why be jealous or resentful of the opportunity costs you have made by laboring for more hours in the day?