bluebell Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, rongo said: The outdated scholarship doesn't bother me. When you read old classics, it can't bother you, or you'd go nuts. But his commentary, insight, and application of things is profound and timeless. That his citing of Edersheim, Clarke, et. al. is smirked at by modern higher critics doesn't faze me a bit. For me, it’s about the importance of information, and not knowing which information he shares is still applicable and which isn’t bothers me. I want to be able to trust the Bible scholarship I’m learning.
rongo Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, bluebell said: For me, it’s about the importance of information, and not knowing which information he shares is still applicable and which isn’t bothers me. I want to be able to trust the Bible scholarship I’m learning. I don't think a lot of things that are deemed "unreliable" by modern scholarship are cut-and-dried, compelling people to submit or be willingly naive. That's certainly the feeling that is conveyed and cultivated, and why many people look with disdain on the greats of the past. I think a lot of it is a matter of modern preference and trend, not shutting the door on "outdated scholarship." I think the main reason JtC isn't read much today is because of the general decline in reading, and less ability to grapple with archaic language or erudition. Maybe when they're done writing the 5th grade level Church history, they can write a new study of Jesus with everything run through David Bokovoy . . .
bluebell Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, rongo said: I don't think a lot of things that are deemed "unreliable" by modern scholarship are cut-and-dried, compelling people to submit or be willingly naive. That's certainly the feeling that is conveyed and cultivated, and why many people look with disdain on the greats of the past. I'm not really sure what you are saying here, sorry. I'm just speaking for myself. I want to know that what i'm learning is accurate (or accurate to what we currently understand). My biggest problem with getting my history degree was dealing with how much of history is just educated guesses. I still struggle with that. It's not a great fit for my personality, even though I love it. Quote I think a lot of it is a matter of modern preference and trend, not shutting the door on "outdated scholarship." I think the main reason JtC isn't read much today is because of the general decline in reading, and less ability to grapple with archaic language or erudition. Maybe when they're done writing the 5th grade level Church history, they can write a new study of Jesus with everything run through David Bokovoy . . . That could be, but it isn't really relevant to me or my feelings about the book.
Robert F. Smith Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 3:03 PM, Unaffiliated said: The key phrase here is "written by Apostles." So I don't want suggestions of books about the church or the Brethren written by other scholars. I want to know which books you enjoy that were actually written by members of the First Presidency and Q12 as authors. And explain why you like the book you mentioned. I hope to do some Deseret Book shopping soon. I still treasure the powerful effect of reading both of Elder Talmage's semi-official books, Jesus the Christ, and the Articles of Faith. I was quite young then, and don't know what a lifetime of scholarship would mean if I would first read them today. Would I be critical and find fault? It has been so many decades that I truly just don't know. But I would recommend them to anyone who is young and wants a good introduction to LDS theology. Nice gift (one at a time) for a teenager who likes to read. 1
Duncan Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 On 7/20/2018 at 3:52 PM, bluebell said: I'm not really sure what you are saying here, sorry. I'm just speaking for myself. I want to know that what i'm learning is accurate (or accurate to what we currently understand). My biggest problem with getting my history degree was dealing with how much of history is just educated guesses. I still struggle with that. It's not a great fit for my personality, even though I love it. That could be, but it isn't really relevant to me or my feelings about the book. https://deseretbook.com/p/jesus-christ-study-guide-richard-neitzel-holzapfel-92888?variant_id=2774-paperback I think........this is an updated version of JTC. I bought a DVD of JTC https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5770400/ It was 30 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! put it in, sit done and it's over!!!! didn't really talk about JTC much! 2
Robert F. Smith Posted July 22, 2018 Posted July 22, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 5:32 PM, Josh Khinder said: What Mormons teach about the birth of a handicapped Child and minorities especially in third world countries, is one of favorite books to quote 😀 "This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-165) TLDP: 497- Harold B. Lee “There is no truth more plainly taught in the Gospel than that our condition in the next world will depend upon the kind of lives we live here. …Is it not just as reasonable to suppose that the conditions in which we now live have been determined by the kind of lives we lived in the pre-existent world of spirits? That the apostles understood this principle is indicated by their question to the Master when the man who was blind from his birth was healed of his blindness, ‘Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?’ (John 9:2.) Now perhaps you will have a partial answer to some of your questions as to why, if God is a just Father, that some of his children are born of an enlightened race and in a time when the Gospel is upon the earth, while others are born of a heathen parentage in a benighted, backward country; and still others are born to parents who have the mark of a black skin with which the seed of Cain were cursed and whose descendants were to be denied the rights of the priesthood of God” (Harold B. Lee, Decisions for Successful Living, pp. 164-165). http://i.imgur.com/3arjdtr.jpg . Unfortunate instances of blatant false doctrine. He even ignores Jesus' authoritative response to the apostles in John 9. Hugh Nibley had still another, opposite theory that it was precisely the people born to hardship and under extreme situations who are the best of the lot -- Nibley, “The Best Possible Test,” Dialogue 8/1 (Spring 1973): 73 – 77, online at https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V08N01_75.pdf .
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