GOD CODE

[LittleNipper]

I saw a interesting show regarding what has been labeled the spiritual DNA of the Bible. If this is indeed a fact, shouldn't the Book of Mormon also reveal the GOD CODE supposedly possessing the living DNA of the HOLY BIBLE. And if indeed the Book of Mormon doesn't share the DNA with the HOLY BIBLE, wouldn't that in fact undermine the supposed authenticity of the Book of Mormon as being inerrant and GOD inspired? The Bible has always been referred to by its adherents as the LIVING WORD OF GOD. Is this not true with regards to the Book of Mormon? Is anyone finding coded messages within the Book of Mormon? The Book of Mormon is believed by those who trust it as the most uncorrupt text because of its most recent discovery and direct translation from ORIGINAL texts that the angel took back to heaven... If the Bible contains GOD's coded messages, shouldn't also the Book of Mormon?

Edited April 26, 2018 by LittleNipper

[Calm]

"If this is indeed a fact..."

This is a big if.  Probably should solve this before speculating what it means for the BoM

[LittleNipper]

Just now, Calm said:

"If this is indeed a fact..."

This is a big if.  Probably should solve this before speculating what it means for the BoM

The show was on the History Channel. If one has cable it is viewable on DEMAND.

[Calm]

I studied it awhile back in response to a question about it from my mom.  My memory says he royally messed up on the actual atomic masses involved and that was basic to his claim.

Unless you can demonstrate my interpretation is wrong, I have no intention of wasting any more time on it.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Calm

[JAHS]

This is a joke , Right?
April fools was a few weeks ago. 

[Calm]

Here is someone's review who liked Braden a lot until he saw this lecture:

http://www.realitymaps.com/2004/03-godcode.html

"The holes in his theory are very easy to spot and as wide as the Grand Canyon. Braden links the elements hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen and carbon to the Hebrew Alphabet with "atomic mass". But the respective atomic masses of these elements, which he gives as 1, 5, 6 and 3, are actually 1, 14, 16 and 12. To make the evidence fit, he has resorted to a numerological trick: 14 becomes 1 + 4 = 5; 16 becomes… well 6 (it does have 6 valence electrons though!); and 12 becomes 1 + 2 = 3. Also, the 1st letter of the Hebrew Alphabet is actually alep. Yod, the Y in his YH VG translation, is Hebrew letter number 10. But Braden justifies calling 10 a 1 because 10 = 1 + 0 = 1.

The problem with this sort of fiddling, to get the evidence to fit the theory, is that it invalidates the "statistician's probability" above. If unscientifically adding numbers together is okay, which he has done with nearly all his "evidence", then the following must be valid: nitrogen, with atomic mass 14, could equally pertain to Hebrew letter 14 (1 + 4 =5), or even letter 15 by just getting rid of the 1 as he did with oxygen; oxygen, with atomic mass 16, could also be Hebrew letter 15 (5+1=6) or Hebrew letter 16; and carbon with atomic mass 12, could also be Hebrew letter 12 or even 21 (2 + 1 =3). The link between these "alphabets" now seems more tenuous, and the 1 in 234,256 statistic starts to look a bit optimistic.

But if the link is valid, as he says it is, then it must be valid both ways. So Y, the tenth letter of the Hebrew alphabet, could be relating to neon which has atomic mass 10 or manganese with atomic mass 55 (5+5) or silicon with atomic mass 28 (2+8) or fluoride with atomic mass 18 (1+8) or even radium with atomic mass 226 (2+2+6). And that is just one letter and just some of the transitional elements. Try doing it with the other three letters and you come up with loads of other elements. Also, why put the elements in the particular order to give YV VG? The "introduction to our genetic code" could just as well have been YG VH (which, as any linguist from Los Angeles will tell you, means "Yo, Gregg Vas Here"). There is HUGE room here to cook the facts, which is exactly what Braden seems to have done."

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

I saw a interesting show regarding what has been labeled the spiritual DNA of the Bible. If this is indeed a fact, shouldn't the Book of Mormon also reveal the GOD CODE supposedly possessing the living DNA of the HOLY BIBLE. And if indeed the Book of Mormon doesn't share the DNA with the HOLY BIBLE, wouldn't that in fact undermine the supposed authenticity of the Book of Mormon as being inerrant and GOD inspired? The Bible has always been referred to by its adherents as the LIVING WORD OF GOD. Is this not true with regards to the Book of Mormon? Is anyone finding coded messages within the Book of Mormon? The Book of Mormon is believed by those who trust it as the most uncorrupt text because of its most recent discovery and direct translation from ORIGINAL texts that the angel took back to heaven... If the Bible contains GOD's coded messages, shouldn't also the Book of Mormon?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

The show was on the History Channel. If one has cable it is viewable on DEMAND.

The History Channel, known for their strict adherence to the evidence without ever dipping into sensationalism.

 

Let me clue you in on a little known secret. You can lie on TV. This God Code and Bible Code crap has been around for decades now. One guy wanted to disprove it so he showed that you could pull out just as many secret messages from Moby ****. Morons then assumed that Melville was trying to hide secret messages in his book too.

Running in here after watching a goofy documentary and throwing it out as a smug “gotcha” just reveals you as a credulous idiot.

Be a little more skeptical and a little less credulous and you can avoid this kind of humiliation in the future. Namaste.

Edited April 26, 2018 by The Nehor

[MormonMason]

The Bible has been rewritten in several places by scribes.  How does one look for 'DNA' in a text that's been corrupted before we ever got to see it and after passing through multiple translators's hands?

P.S.:  Someone I know once researched those equidistant letter sequences some years ago.  He thought the ones in Isaiah looked impressive.  Then he got curious as to to whether he could go further.  So, he began counting further.  In Isaiah he started with the one that said "Yeshua'" and began counting further.  He found the phrase "Yeshua' blood false prophet" and also found "Muhammad is God".  Needless to say he no longer believed in Bible codes or equidistant letter sequences from then on.  Want to know what was worse? How does one do those things when some of the letters being counted weren't in the text at the time it was written? That was another serious problem with believing such things.

Edited April 26, 2018 by MormonMason

[LittleNipper]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Here is someone's review who liked Braden a lot until he saw this lecture:

http://www.realitymaps.com/2004/03-godcode.html

"The holes in his theory are very easy to spot and as wide as the Grand Canyon. Braden links the elements hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen and carbon to the Hebrew Alphabet with "atomic mass". But the respective atomic masses of these elements, which he gives as 1, 5, 6 and 3, are actually 1, 14, 16 and 12. To make the evidence fit, he has resorted to a numerological trick: 14 becomes 1 + 4 = 5; 16 becomes… well 6 (it does have 6 valence electrons though!); and 12 becomes 1 + 2 = 3. Also, the 1st letter of the Hebrew Alphabet is actually alep. Yod, the Y in his YH VG translation, is Hebrew letter number 10. But Braden justifies calling 10 a 1 because 10 = 1 + 0 = 1.

The problem with this sort of fiddling, to get the evidence to fit the theory, is that it invalidates the "statistician's probability" above. If unscientifically adding numbers together is okay, which he has done with nearly all his "evidence", then the following must be valid: nitrogen, with atomic mass 14, could equally pertain to Hebrew letter 14 (1 + 4 =5), or even letter 15 by just getting rid of the 1 as he did with oxygen; oxygen, with atomic mass 16, could also be Hebrew letter 15 (5+1=6) or Hebrew letter 16; and carbon with atomic mass 12, could also be Hebrew letter 12 or even 21 (2 + 1 =3). The link between these "alphabets" now seems more tenuous, and the 1 in 234,256 statistic starts to look a bit optimistic.

But if the link is valid, as he says it is, then it must be valid both ways. So Y, the tenth letter of the Hebrew alphabet, could be relating to neon which has atomic mass 10 or manganese with atomic mass 55 (5+5) or silicon with atomic mass 28 (2+8) or fluoride with atomic mass 18 (1+8) or even radium with atomic mass 226 (2+2+6). And that is just one letter and just some of the transitional elements. Try doing it with the other three letters and you come up with loads of other elements. Also, why put the elements in the particular order to give YV VG? The "introduction to our genetic code" could just as well have been YG VH (which, as any linguist from Los Angeles will tell you, means "Yo, Gregg Vas Here"). There is HUGE room here to cook the facts, which is exactly what Braden seems to have done."

Braden?  This is about Timothy Paul Smith. Let me laugh with you ---- You're regarding the wrong guy and the wrong topic.  That's funny!

Edited April 26, 2018 by LittleNipper

[LittleNipper]

I think you are mixed up. The program  is about  the Chamberlain Key:

http://godcodebook.com/what-is-the-chamberlain-key/

[LittleNipper]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-pty-pty_forms&hsimp=yhs-pty_forms&hspart=pty&p=chamberlain+key#id=2&vid=fd71cc6338f1658dd6b82c189a3b3706&action=view

Edited April 26, 2018 by LittleNipper

[LittleNipper]

What this in essence indicates is that this encryption was intentional and statistically impossible unless intensional!

Edited April 26, 2018 by LittleNipper

[Marginal Gains]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

I think you are mixed up. The program  is about  the Chamberlain Key:

http://godcodebook.com/what-is-the-chamberlain-key/

 

Quote

 

Imagine you are a young, ambitious, successful appraiser of artifacts and antiquities—your services in demand by many of the most powerful individuals and branches of government in Washington, D. C.  Your future could not seem brighter—except for a troubling dream…with the same mysterious message…on the same exact date…three years in a row…

A True Story…Better Than Fiction

Timothy P. Smith, heir to a renowned family business responsible for construction or renovation of some of America’s most cherished landmarks, struggled to understand the significance of his recurring dream…until he had another dream–one that identified a specific location where it seemed he might find answers to his questions. So Timothy drove to a remote spot in British Columbia. There the adventure–which later led to a startling discovery in the oldest Hebrew text of the Bible–began.

 

 

Someone called Smith having a recurring dream about answers to questions hidden in a specific location which leads to the discovery of ancient text....sounds vaguely familiar....

Edited April 26, 2018 by Marginal Gains

[LittleNipper]

24 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said:

 

 

Someone called Smith having a recurring dream about answers to questions hidden in a specific location which leads to the discovery of ancient text....sounds vaguely familiar....

Maybe GOD is using a Smith to deal with a Smith. In this case though ---- this Smith is dealing with the original text.

Edited April 26, 2018 by LittleNipper

[Calm]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

Braden?  This is about Timothy Paul Smith. Let me laugh with you ---- You're regarding the wrong guy and the wrong topic.  That's funny!

The only God Code about DNA I am aware of is this book:

https://www.amazon.com/God-Code-Secret-Promise-Future/dp/1401903002

If this is not the God Code you are talking about, specify which it is.

[Amulek]

11 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

I saw a interesting show regarding what has been labeled the spiritual DNA of the Bible. If this is indeed a fact, shouldn't the Book of Mormon also reveal the GOD CODE supposedly possessing the living DNA of the HOLY BIBLE. [...]

Given sufficient will, time, and compute power, I'm sure someone could engage in exactly the same kind of post hoc analysis to prove that similar 'secret (GOD!) codes' exist in the Book of Mormon. 

And, if someone ever does something like that, I suspect I'll give them the exact same measure attention I plan on giving this Timothy Smith fellow. 

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

I think you are mixed up. The program  is about  the Chamberlain Key:

http://godcodebook.com/what-is-the-chamberlain-key/

Probably would have been best to start with a link.

Now you can give a summary of his claims if they are different than Braden's...so many codes in the Bible have been allegedly discovered, why do you consider this one a viable candidate (I am assuming you don't believe they are all true, if you do please explain how that is possible in your view).

[Amulek]

12 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

In this case though ---- this Smith is dealing with the original text

No, he's dealing with the oldest known copy of a text. If he had discovered an "original text," he would be famous. 

 

[LittleNipper]

1 minute ago, Amulek said:

Given sufficient will, time, and compute power, I'm sure someone could engage in exactly the same kind of post hoc analysis to prove that similar 'secret (GOD!) codes' exist in the Book of Mormon. 

And, if someone ever does something like that, I suspect I'll give them the exact same measure attention I plan on giving this Timothy Smith fellow. 

 

So you don't believe in Divine Inspiration? I don't accept the Book of Mormon because it infringes on the Bible and never claims to be a living book.

[Calm]

"Now, it’s always fascinated me that both my father and myself had seven children, six sons and a daughter, so it should be no surprise that when I studied the Bible, this verse would make me pause, because Leah also had six sons and a daughter. As I examined the original Hebrew text in the Leningrad Codex, I went straight for Genesis chapter 30, 20 through 25, to see if I might find anything hidden there. I found it immediately. There in Genesis chapter 30, 20 through 25, I found the Hebrew letters of my own name encrypted in the text at a perfect equidistant skip of 16. The odds of it being there by chance are astronomical, many billions to one. This was absolutely unbelievable."

http://godcodebook.com/what-is-the-chamberlain-key/

[LittleNipper]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Probably would have been best to start with a link.

Now you can give a summary of his claims if they are different than Braden's...so many codes in the Bible have been allegedly discovered, why do you consider this one a viable candidate (I am assuming you don't believe they are all true, if you do please explain how that is possible in your view).

Mr. Smith is using the oldest texts which possess original hebrew lettering.  The Leningrad copy is among those mentioned. He also is not tampering with random passages but finding words through repeated spacing (say every 16th letter). 

[Calm]

An Amazon review that seems pretty fair given the others, definitely more detailed:

Quote

Smith had some puzzling dreams and an appearance (or vision) of Moses. He was led to look at the Hebrew text of Genesis. He had six sons and a daughter, as did Jacob and Leah so examined Genesis 30:20-23. He found his name in an equidistant letter sequence (ELS) as well as other significant information. That led him on a journey of pursuing the possibility of other significant equidistant letter words and phrases.

The book is more of a spiritual memoir than a scientific study. Smith writes, “My objective in attempting to decipher hidden information in the Old Testament was not to prove to anyone that the text was encrypted or to attempt to predict any future events but rather to unravel the mystery of my own spiritual experiences.” (185, 186) He has done a good job of recounting his own spiritual journey finding hidden words in the Hebrew text.

However, Smith also writes that his discovery “will dramatically redirect biblical scholarship, Christian theology, and perhaps even the trajectory of history itself.” (1) That is a huge claim and one, I think, that is very over blown.

Finding words in the Hebrew through equidistant letter searches is nothing new. The concept has been been known since the thirteenth century. Smith mentions a paper by Rips, Witztum and Rosenberg published in 1994 in which they claimed to have detected encoded information in the Hebrew text. The concept was popularized in The Bible Code by Michael Drosnin, published in 1997. Many articles critical of the claims were published after that time. Some even went so far as to apply the equidistant letter sequence technique to common literature. Hidden messages were found in Moby **** and War and Peace. The conclusion was that anecdotal messages could be found everywhere in written works and seemed to be just a phenomenon of language and random chance.

Add that there are no vowels in Hebrew and that increases the subjectivity of the ELS phenomenon. Is it Tim, Tom, tame, time, tome? The identification of the word may be a result of the influence of the one searching.

I am surprised that this topic has arisen again. The concept seemed to be pretty much discounted back in the late 1990s. The publisher of this book, WaterBrook, even published a book in 1999 critical of equidistant letter sequencing called Who Wrote the Bible Code? by Randy Ingermanson. Ingermanson had written several critical articles on the subject. When he transferred his web site to new technology, he didn't transfer those articles because he considered it a “dead subject” and doubted “anyone much cares anymore.”

What is the significance of this book? It is a good account of one person and his spiritual experiences. Smith sees his ELS experience as confirmation of the existence of God. (79) Researchers who have found significant ESL words and phrases in common literature would not agree. Smith says he is going to investigate further. You can watch a book trailer, read an excerpt, and find future articles on his research at the book's web site. Time will tell the significance of this book.

 

[Amulek]

1 minute ago, LittleNipper said:

So you don't believe in Divine Inspiration?

Um...I'm pretty sure that's not what I said. 

 

Quote

I don't accept the Book of Mormon because it infringes on the Bible and never claims to be a living book.

But if you were able to find secret codes in it's text....then what? We start filling the font?

 

[Calm]

So Nipper, if we found some equidistant letter sequencing codes in the Book of Mormon, would it prove to you it was God's word?  

Amulek, same idea, you got in a second earlier...no fair.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Calm