mfbukowski Posted February 8, 2018 Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Josh Khinder said: Are you a Church leader ? Yes, and why do you think that is important?
Josh Khinder Posted February 8, 2018 Posted February 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Yes, and why do you think that is important? You seem to think LDS leaders disagree on doctrinal issues which is very true
mfbukowski Posted February 8, 2018 Posted February 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said: You seem to think LDS leaders disagree on doctrinal issues which is very true Yes and why is that important?
Josh Khinder Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: Yes and why is that important? Because these so claimed leaders claimed to be anointed by God to lead "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."1Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945 "I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of the Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God." (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212-213.)
mfbukowski Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: Because these so claimed leaders claimed to be anointed by God to lead "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."1Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945 "I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of the Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God." (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212-213.) Where does that say that leaders don't disagree sometimes? They ARE annointed to lead but does that mean they are infallible? You keep making all these unwarranted assumptions and logical jumps you have no reason for. You make stuff up and create strawmen. Where does it say that leaders never disagree, and if it did why would you believe it just because it said that? Think a little bit!! Why do you believe the bible? Because it says it's true or your parents taught you that, or some preacher? How do you know they are right? You cannot know that unless God himself has affirmed it to your heart. Use your logic. Every single person could affirm what you have said and yet disagree on other things- and even with that leaders might disagree on these principles too. Your question was about them disagreeing and this quote says nothing about that. You have no understanding of Mormon beliefs. These very statements are statements of inspired men, yet we may not agree with them! We must individually have a testimony even of a statement like "God will never permit me or any other man ... to lead you astray" and still be wrong We do not believe that the bible or the statements of leaders are infallible. If someone says that, they are wrong. So why should you listen to me? Why would you listen to ANYONE without thinking it through? Trust me, I am infallible. Edited February 9, 2018 by mfbukowski 1
Josh Khinder Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Where does that say that leaders don't disagree sometimes? They ARE annointed to lead but does that mean they are infallible? Where does it say that, and if it did why would you believe it just because it said that? Why do you believe the bible? Because it says it's true or your parents taught you that, or some preacher? How do you know they are right? You cannot know that unless God himself has affirmed it to your heart. Use your logic. Every single person could affirm what you have said and yet disagree on other things- and even with that leaders might disagree on these principles too. Your question was about them disagreeing and this quote says nothing about that. You have no understanding of Mormon beliefs. These very statements are statements of inspired men, yet we may not agree with them! We must individually have a testimony even of a statement like "God will never permit me or any other man ... to lead you astray" and still be wrong We do not believe that the bible or the statements of leaders are infallible. If someone says that, they are wrong. So why should you listen to me? Why would you listen to ANYONE without thinking it through? Trust me, I am infallible. When the leaders God chose in the Bible, they weren't infallible they were correct 21"You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?' 22"When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. New American Standard Bible Cross References Deuteronomy 18:20 'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'Deuteronomy 18:21 "You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'1 Kings 22:28 Micaiah said, "If you indeed return safely the LORD has not spoken by me." And he said, "Listen, all you people."Jeremiah 28:9 "The prophet who prophesies of peace, when the word of the prophet comes to pass, then that prophet will be known as one whom the LORD has truly sent." Treasury of Scripture When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him. Edited February 9, 2018 by Josh Khinder
mfbukowski Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said: When the leaders God chose in the Bible, they weren't infallible they were correct 21"You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?' 22"When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. New American Standard Bible Cross References Deuteronomy 18:20 'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'Deuteronomy 18:21 "You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'1 Kings 22:28 Micaiah said, "If you indeed return safely the LORD has not spoken by me." And he said, "Listen, all you people."Jeremiah 28:9 "The prophet who prophesies of peace, when the word of the prophet comes to pass, then that prophet will be known as one whom the LORD has truly sent." Treasury of Scripture When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him. Why do you do that and ignore questions? Are you a human being or a parrot? Why do you believe the Bible? Answer the question or I am done. You get to pick what you want - either one is fine with me. And who said anything about prophecy? This discussion is about leaders disagreeing. There is no logic here at all. I cannot talk to you if there is no conversation- you quit changing subjects and parroting the bible with references that have nothing to do with the topic. Useless. Edited February 9, 2018 by mfbukowski 2
Josh Khinder Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 40 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Why do you do that and ignore questions? Are you a human being or a parrot? Why do you believe the Bible? Answer the question or I am done. You get to pick what you want - either one is fine with me. And who said anything about prophecy? This discussion is about leaders disagreeing. There is no logic here at all. I cannot talk to you if there is no conversation- you quit changing subjects and parroting the bible with references that have nothing to do with the topic. Useless. The Bible is God's word to us, The Old Testament the words of the Prophets and The New the Words of The Apostles
mfbukowski Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: The Bible is God's word to us, The Old Testament the words of the Prophets and The New the Words of The Apostles As usual, you do not answer questions. I do not dispute that, but the question was WHY DO YOU THINK the bible is the word of God when the prophets and the apostles are NOT God himself You said it is the "words of the prophets and apostles"- the question is how do you know they were correct about God? Do you get that?? WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE? How do you know it is not the words of men in old legends?? Do you now understand the question? And don't tell me it has historical evidence because that doesn't prove anything. Legends also have historical evidence The bible are the words of men who BELIEVED (at best) that they were writing the words of God. Prophets are humans who sometimes get it right, and sometimes get it wrong, they are not infallible. I have asked you that in a hundred different ways and you can never answer- there is no basis for discussion here if you can't even answer the question
mfbukowski Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: Because these so claimed leaders claimed to be anointed by God to lead "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."1Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945 "I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of the Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God." (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212-213.) You are not understanding that those are the words of a leader who is a fallible human being and may or may not be correct. Even IF they are "annointed by God to lead" they still are fallible humans Claiming that "when our leaders speak, the thinking has been done" is one thing but knowing that is true is another. The question is how do you know what IS correct as given by human apostles and prophets in the bible? I have asked you every possible way now, repeatedly I am trying desperately to get you to understand but it is not getting through. Edited February 9, 2018 by mfbukowski
Josh Khinder Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: As usual, you do not answer questions. I do not dispute that, but the question was WHY DO YOU THINK the bible is the word of God when the prophets and the apostles are NOT God himself You said it is the "words of the prophets and apostles"- the question is how do you know they were correct about God? Do you get that?? WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE? How do you know it is not the words of men in old legends?? Do you now understand the question? And don't tell me it has historical evidence because that doesn't prove anything. Legends also have historical evidence The bible are the words of men who BELIEVED (at best) that they were writing the words of God. Prophets are humans who sometimes get it right, and sometimes get it wrong, they are not infallible. I have asked you that in a hundred different ways and you can never answer- there is no basis for discussion here if you can't even answer the question Read Evidence Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell to figure that out
mfbukowski Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said: Read Evidence Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell to figure that out I am asking you not him But this is in the intro to the book http://www.gracechapelsomd.org/books/The_New_Evidence_That_Demands_A_Verdict.pdf Quote One day he was confronted with a young lady who challenged him to really discover Jesus Christ intellectually. Leaving the university he headed out to take up the challenge of proving Christianity a sham. The more he researched the more troubling the evidence became. Eventually an inner voice declared that he didn’t have a leg to stand on and it continued to pound his brain. Finally realizing he was becoming intellectually dishonest, he had to make a decision, but he did not like the direction the evidence was taking him. Finally overwhelmed with the evidence and the presence of God, Josh McDowell opened his heart to the Lord. His life has not been the same since. His journey will help many find the answers they are searching for There you go! God told him in his heart- his own heart He studied it out in his mind and asked God if it was true and got his answer- just like me. DC 9 Quote 8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. So I guess your buddy Josh does what Mormons do and has the same evidence we do for the Book of Mormon Question answered. Edited for further info found Edited February 9, 2018 by mfbukowski 1
Josh Khinder Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: I am asking you not him But this is in the intro to the book http://www.gracechapelsomd.org/books/The_New_Evidence_That_Demands_A_Verdict.pdf There you go! God told him in his heart- his own heart He studied it out in his mind and asked God if it was true and got his answer- just like me. DC 9 So I guess your buddy Josh does what Mormons do and has the same evidence we do for the Book of Mormon Question answered. Edited for further info found Sorry but the Book of Mormon has no evidence compared to the Bible, in fact LDS leaders have taught the Book of Mormon lands were in North America . Now the popular view is South America
mfbukowski Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said: Sorry but the Book of Mormon has no evidence compared to the Bible, in fact LDS leaders have taught the Book of Mormon lands were in North America . Now the popular view is South America If you actually read the book you directed me to, that is irrelevant There is absolutely no evidence you are "Saved". Show it to me. Someone died on a cross, perhaps a legend, and yet now you are saved from your sins? You are not getting this Have a good day and a good life! I wish you well I was just trying to help you understand what your own "expert" was saying but you still don't get it. The book says Quote Eventually an inner voice declared that he didn’t have a leg to stand on and it continued to pound his brain. Finally realizing he was becoming intellectually dishonest, he had to make a decision, but he did not like the direction the evidence was taking him. Finally overwhelmed with the evidence and the presence of God, Josh McDowell opened his heart to the Lord. His life has not been the same since. His journey will help many find the answers they are searching for but you are still not "opening your heart to the Lord" or at very least admitting that this is as much "evidence" as anything else, and yet more important evidence because it is directly the word of the Lord in our own hearts. If I was ever rude I apologize, I was just trying to get your attention.
Bernard Gui Posted February 9, 2018 Author Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) On 2/8/2018 at 3:53 PM, Josh Khinder said: You seem to think LDS leaders disagree on doctrinal issues which is very true So what? Perhaps you could expound on the unanimity among the numerous Christian sects and their theologians, expositors, apologists, bible translators, philosophers, teachers, writers, pastors, priests, universities, magazines, synods, publishing houses, tract writers, bloggers, etc., etc., etc., etc. Which one of them tells the truth? Which of them is authorized to present God's word? The disagreement between other Christians is far, far greater than that between LDS leaders. It has even led to war! Do you not realize you are undermining your own faith position with this argument? Edited February 10, 2018 by Bernard Gui 4
Bernard Gui Posted February 9, 2018 Author Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: Because these so claimed leaders claimed to be anointed by God to lead "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."1Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945 If you are sincere in your questions, then you should be willing to read and comprehend an answer rather than ignore the answer and redirect the discussion to unrelated issues. Here is the answer to your question. https://www.fairmormon.org/archive/publications/when-the-prophet-speaks-is-the-thinking-done Quote The letter, reproduced in full below, should lay to rest any misconception about whether the Church or its leaders expect blind obedience in any degree. Edited February 9, 2018 by Bernard Gui 3
mfbukowski Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) Quoting Josh McDowell, Pragmatic Christian, following Alma 32 to a T! https://www.cru.org/us/en/how-to-know-god/my-story-a-life-changed/my-story-josh-mcdowell.html Underlining added. Quote Immediately she shot back, “I didn’t say religion, I said Jesus Christ!” She pointed out something I had never known: Christianity is not a religion. Religion is humans trying to work their way to God through good works. Christianity is God coming to men and women through Jesus Christ. Then my new friends issued a challenge I couldn’t believe. They challenged me to make rigorous, intellectual examinations of the claims of Jesus Christ – that He is God’s Son; that He inhabited a human body and lived among real men and women; that He died on the cross for the sins of humanity; that He was buried and was resurrected three days later; and that He is still alive and can change a person’s life even today..... .... Still Reluctant You would think that after examining the evidence, I would have immediately jumped on board and become a Christian. But in spite of the abundant evidence, I felt a strong reluctance to make the plunge. My mind was convinced of the truth. I had to admit that Jesus Christ must be exactly who He claimed to be. There were two reasons for my reluctance: pleasure and pride. I thought that becoming a Christian meant giving up the good life and giving up control. I couldn’t think of any faster way to ruin my good times, but I was really miserable. I was a walking battlefield. My mind was telling me that Christianity was true, but my will was resisting it with all the energy it could muster. Then there was the pride problem. At that time the thought of becoming a Christian shattered my ego. I had just proved that all my previous thinking had been wrong and my friends had been right. I couldn’t let go of the problem. I had to do something before it drove me out of my mind..... ....Somebody asked me, “How do you know you became a Christian?” One of several answers was simple: “It changed my life.” It is this transformation that assures me of the validity of my conversion. That night I prayed four things to establish a relationship with the resurrected, living Christ, and I am grateful that this prayer has been answered. First, I said, “Lord Jesus, thank you for dying on the cross for me.” Second, I said, “I confess those things in my life that aren’t pleasing to you and ask you to forgive and cleanse me.” God tell us that, “No matter how deep the stain of your sins, I can remove it. I can make you as clean as freshly fallen snow” (Isaiah 1:18, paraphrased). Third, I said, “Right now, in the best way I know how, I open the door of my heart and life and trust you as my Savior and Lord. Take control of my life. Change me from the inside out. Make me the type of person you created me to be.” The last thing I prayed was, “Thank you for coming into my life by faith.” It was faith based not on ignorance but on evidence, the facts of history, and God’s Word. The change was not immediate, but it was real. In six to eighteen months, my life was changed. One change was relief from my restlessness. Another area that began to change was my bad temper. Evidence alone was not enough- he needed confirmation by the spirit! So we have Moroni 10-4 and Alma 32 from an Evangelical preacher. Of course. It works for everyone. "Study it out in your mind, and pray"- right there. It is not "evidence" alone but the confirmation is the spirit, ALWAYS "It changed my life" That's William James and Richard Rorty, atheists, speaking through the mouth of an Evangelical preacher. If it changes your life, it is "true". Of course it has to make sense intellectually for you as well, otherwise it is nonsense! Why can't Mormons learn from this? We have it all and don't even see it while we argue about the location of Zarahemla.!! What a waste!! Edited February 9, 2018 by mfbukowski 2
mfbukowski Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: So what? Perhaps you could expound on the unanimity among the numerous Christian sects and their theologians, expositors, apologists, bible translators, philosophers, teachers, writers, pastors, priests, universities, magazines, synods, publishing houses, tract writers, bloggers, etc., etc., etc., etc. Which one of them tells the truth? Which of them is authorized to present God's word? Do you not realize you are destroying your own faith position with this argument?
Josh Khinder Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: So what? Perhaps you could expound on the unanimity among the numerous Christian sects and their theologians, expositors, apologists, bible translators, philosophers, teachers, writers, pastors, priests, universities, magazines, synods, publishing houses, tract writers, bloggers, etc., etc., etc., etc. Which one of them tells the truth? Which of them is authorized to present God's word? The disagreement between other Christians is far, far greater than that between LDS leaders. It has even led to war! Do you not realize you are undermining your own faith position with this argument? Christians no matter what denomination hold true to these doctrines always have and will E. Calvin Beisner God in Three Persons The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines: The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal The doctrine of the incarnation----- that the Son of God, the Word ( John 1:1 ) became man ( John ; Rom. 1:3 ) uniting in the single person of the Son two distinct and complete natures, diety and humanity. The sinless of Christ---- that he lived as the perfect man to fulfill God’s plan for all humanity. ( Heb 2:6-18; 4:14, 15 ) The sacrificial death of Christ---- to atone for sins of all men ( 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:; Matt 20:28; 1 Cor 6:20 ) The resurrection of Christ---- that after his death, Christ rose bodily from the grave, showing his triumph over sin and death, as the first fruit, and hence the promise, of resurrection to all who have faith in him ( 1 ; Rom 6:3-11 ) Salvation by Grace through Faith--- that justification before God, and hence salvation from punishment and life with God, are available only as a gift from God through faith in Jesus Christ ( John 14:6; 3:16 Acts 4:10; John 8:24 ) pp 19-20 When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness. We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24 “The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153 Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ] Edited February 10, 2018 by Josh Khinder
Josh Khinder Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: If you are sincere in your questions, then you should be willing to read and comprehend an answer rather than ignore the answer and redirect the discussion to unrelated issues. Here is the answer to your question. https://www.fairmormon.org/archive/publications/when-the-prophet-speaks-is-the-thinking-done
Bernard Gui Posted February 10, 2018 Author Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: Impressive display of intelligence and wit. You must be from Issaquah. Still, it falls somewhat short of rebutting the FAIR response. Edited February 10, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
Bernard Gui Posted February 10, 2018 Author Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: Christians no matter what denomination hold true to these doctrines always have and will E. Calvin Beisner God in Three Persons The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines: The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal The doctrine of the incarnation----- that the Son of God, the Word ( John 1:1 ) became man ( John ; Rom. 1:3 ) uniting in the single person of the Son two distinct and complete natures, diety and humanity. The sinless of Christ---- that he lived as the perfect man to fulfill God’s plan for all humanity. ( Heb 2:6-18; 4:14, 15 ) The sacrificial death of Christ---- to atone for sins of all men ( 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:; Matt 20:28; 1 Cor 6:20 ) The resurrection of Christ---- that after his death, Christ rose bodily from the grave, showing his triumph over sin and death, as the first fruit, and hence the promise, of resurrection to all who have faith in him ( 1 ; Rom 6:3-11 ) Salvation by Grace through Faith--- that justification before God, and hence salvation from punishment and life with God, are available only as a gift from God through faith in Jesus Christ ( John 14:6; 3:16 Acts 4:10; John 8:24 ) pp 19-20 When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness. We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24 “The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153 Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ] So much so that they are willing to kill each other....and others not of their faith....over them. Impressive copy/paste list. One sees from Dr. Beisner’s publications that he spends a considerable amount of his time contending against other Christian leaders, not the least of which is the Pope. How can this be? Edited February 10, 2018 by Bernard Gui
Calm Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: Impressive display of intelligence and wit. You must be from Issaquah. Still, it falls somewhat short of rebutting the FAIR response. And completely inaccurate. FairMormon started up back in the late 90s; when what had been FARMS shut down more or less many years later, The Intrepreter was born as a venue to replace FARMS publications and conferences while FM just kept doing our thing, collecting info, making it accessible for all and yearly conferences about any new stuff and some quite old. http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/ "The Interpreter Foundation is a nonprofit educational organization focused on the scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, the Bible, and the Doctrine and Covenants), early LDS history, and related subjects. All publications in its journal, Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture, are peer-reviewed and made available as free internet downloads or through at-cost print-on-demand services. Other posts on the website are not necessarily peer-reviewed, but are approved by Interpreter’s Executive Board. Our goal is to increase understanding of scripture through careful scholarly investigation and analysis of the insights provided by a wide range of ancillary disciplines, including language, history, archaeology, literature, culture, ethnohistory, art, geography, law, politics, philosophy, statistics, etc. Interpreter will also publish articles advocating the authenticity and historicity of LDS scripture and the Restoration, along with scholarly responses to critics of the LDS faith. We hope to illuminate, by study and faith, the eternal spiritual message of the scriptures—that Jesus is the Christ." 1
Josh Khinder Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: So much so that they are willing to kill each other....and others not of their faith....over them. Impressive copy/paste list. One sees from Dr. Beisner’s publications that he spends a considerable amount of his time contending against other Christian leaders, not the least of which is the Pope. How can this be? We are commanded to contend for the Faith so I see nothing wrong with that Jude 1 1Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, £sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: 2Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you. 3Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Bernard Gui Posted February 10, 2018 Author Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said: We are commanded to contend for the Faith so I see nothing wrong with that Jude 1 1Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, £sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: 2Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you. 3Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Contending with fellow Christians? I thought you had a problem with Mormon leaders having different opinions. Mormons cannot disagree, but not other Christians can? How does that work? Edited February 10, 2018 by Bernard Gui
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