Navigating college admissions

[rongo]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

Look into what campus your son would specifically be on as well, not just which university. I assumed that my daughter would just be at ASU Tempe. However, while her college is in Tempe, her major is in Phoenix. The two campuses have a different feel to them. 

She most wanted to go BYU-I, but they didn't have her major. Neither does NAU. 

She fought going to school at ASU, but after praying about it she flet tat was,where she felt Heavenly Father wanted her to be. Still she wasn't happy. I finally talked with her how Heavenly Father doesn't want her to be unhappy the entire 4 years so we took another tour of campus on our own. We also visited the institute building etc. She finally felt peaceful and happy about her answers. Not saying your son should go to ASU by any means. Just saying to remember to make things a matter of prayer. 

The ASU institute building and program is enormous. 

I went to ASU for two semesters full time in my younger 30s for post-baccalaureate work, and had a blast (I was actually on the academic bowl team, and we were one question away from winning $5000 apiece. The finals were on TV!). First time in my life I've had straight As . . .  We have been disappointed at the lack of professionalism and poor communication from ASU. They lost my son's transcripts twice (our high school registrar says that they do this all the time), and when you call, the "your call is important to us" message says that if you're calling about transcripts, they won't even look at it until five business days after they receive it. NAU and UofA, on the other hand, have both been the epitome of competent, friendly, and efficient, and they exude the feeling that they want you there and are working for you. 

I think ASU is too big for its own good. They compete with Ohio St. each year for largest university in the U.S.

[Five Solas]

Full disclosure, I went to public schools myself, culminating with a business degree (accounting emphasis) from the University of Washington in Seattle.  I was recruited by BYU when I was in high school, spent a "Y Weekend" on their campus (they put us up in a dormitory), got the dog & pony show, met a couple of the student body officers and spent the better part of an evening at an improbable and long defunct all-ages dance club in Provo called "Plastique."  And at that venue, I (and several other high-school students I'd quickly bonded with) overstayed the curfew that had been mandated, and thereby brought our BYU adventure to a premature end.  Worthy is as worthy does, I suppose. 

BYU has some very solid programs, including business/accounting.  In my current capacity, I run a fairly large and growing practice and hire 15 - 20 folks annually, including some college hires.  I look for talent and I honestly don't care if you're a practicing Muslim or a practicing Mormon (and I have both those examples represented, and many more besides).  When I see a resume with a strong religious affiliation, be it Evangelical Christian (e.g., Biola, Liberty) or LDS (the Catholic ones don't really count because they tend to be highly diverse) the thought that enters my mind is--why did you choose that?  Is it because you prefer to be around people who share your worldview?  And if that's the case, are you going to be a good cultural fit?  Experience has taught me I must care about that.  Sometimes projects get intense and the hours long.  Team members need that occasional dinner or happy hour to relax, bond and let off a little steam.  Team cohesion is vital for success.  Our expense policy for such things runs generous.  Of course no one is expected to drink alcohol--but it's not going to work very well if it makes anyone uncomfortable and/or they sit & judge the majority who do (to pick an obvious example).  If you sincerely value diversity (and of course you'll tell me you do)--wouldn't you have chosen a more diverse cultural experience as part of your education?

I look for talent first & foremost.  And happily I've never had a "cultural fit" decision come down to a question of anyone's practice of religion.  But when my kids are old enough to consider college, I won't be encouraging them to attend a Christian/Protestant/Evangelical university (even though there are some good ones).  I don't like the idea of a religious bubble, and the truth is--I might be a little suspicious of anyone who does.  And I know I'm not the only one.   

--Erik

__________________________________________

Learn to work the saxophone
I play just what I feel
Drink Scotch whisky all night long
And die behind the wheel
They got a name for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide
Call me Deacon Blues

--Steely Dan, 1977

Edited January 7, 2018 by Five Solas
fix typo

[Rain]

Huh. I knew they were big,  but I didn't realize that big. I know one of the reasons my daughter loved BYUI was the size of the student body and campus. No wonder she didn't want to go there at first.  

Really, not trying to get you to go there though. A lot of what I was thinking about was just where majors are. I had always assumed you could do any major on any campus. NAU has more than one campus as well, so it might be good to see if any of the majors he is interested in are only at specific campuses. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Five Solas said:

Full disclosure, I went to public schools myself, culminating with a business degree (accounting emphasis) from the University of Washington in Seattle.  I was recruited by BYU when I was in high school, spent a "Y Weekend" on their campus (they put us up in a dormitory), got the dog & pony show, met a couple of the student body officers and spent the better part of an evening at an improbable and long defunct all-ages dance club in Provo called "Plastique."  And at that venue, I (and several other high-school students I'd quickly bonded with) overstayed the curfew that had been mandated, and thereby brought our BYU adventure to a premature end.  Worthy is as worthy does, I suppose. 

BYU has some very solid programs, including business/accounting.  In my current capacity, I run a fairly large and growing practice and hire 15 - 20 folks annually, including some college hires.  I look for talent and I honestly don't care if you're a practicing Muslim or a practicing Mormon (and I have both those examples represented, and many more besides).  When I see a resume with a strong religious affiliation, be it Evangelical Christian (e.g., Biola, Liberty) or LDS (the Catholic ones don't really count because they tend to be highly diverse) the thought that enters my mind is--why did you choose that?  Is it because you prefer to be around people who share your worldview?  And if that's the case, are you going to be a good cultural fit?  Experience has taught me I must care about that.  Sometimes projects get intense and the hours long.  Team members need that occasional dinner or happy hour to relax, bond and let off a little steam.  Team cohesion is vital for success.  Our expense policy for such things runs generous.  Of course no one is expected to drink alcohol--but it's not going to work very well if it makes anyone uncomfortable and/or they sit & judge the majority who do (to pick an obvious example).  If you sincerely value diversity (and of course you'll tell me you do)--wouldn't you have chosen a more diverse cultural experience as part of your education?

I look for talent first & foremost.  And happily I've never had a "cultural fit" decision come down to a question of anyone's practice of religion.  But when my kids are old enough to consider college, I won't be encouraging them to attend a Christian/Protestant/Evangelical university (even though there are some good ones).  I don't like the idea of a religious bubble, and the truth is--I might be a little suspicious of anyone who does.  And I know I'm not the only one.   

--Erik

__________________________________________

Learn to work the saxophone
I play just what I feel
Drink Scotch whisky all night long
And die behind the wheel
They got a name for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide
Call me Deacon Blues

--Steely Dan, 1977

I wonder whether someone who would reject a hire on the basis of her or his having attended a religious university or being a non-drinker is in a position to be lecturing others about “diversity.” 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Five Solas]

38 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I wonder whether someone who would reject a hire on the basis of her or his having attended a religious university or being a non-drinker is in a position to be lecturing others about “diversity.” 

That's rather far from anything I actually wrote, Scott.  From someone who earns his living as a journalist, the reader might reasonably expect due care as a matter of habit.  But you couldn't care less, could you?   As long as you see an opportunity to rubbish a critic.  You'll probably even get a few likes for it... 

--Erik

[ttribe]

I graduated from ASU in 1996 (Accounting) and obtained a Master of Accountancy from BYU in 1997.  Mine was one of the first years the Arizona Board of Regents offered scholarship deferments for mission service.  As I recall, it was a rather easy process.  When I graduated fro high school, I was automatically admitted to all three State Universities, and offered a tuition waiver as well.  I applied for and was admitted to BYU as an undergrad, but the scholarship offer wasn't quite as good.  In retrospect, I am very happy with two of my decisions at that point: 1) I'm glad I went to ASU for my undergrad.  It was a tremendous chance to learn in a large, very diverse environment and my major of choice was well addressed there; and 2), I'm glad I spent a full year in college before I went on my mission.  I was far more emotionally ready for the stresses and pressures of a mission at that point.

Question about his state school choices - what is he planning to study?  Unless he is focused on forestry, NAU would not be my first choice.  That being said, as an ASU alum, I have to warn any young mind from going to the UofA.   Actually, I spent a couple of years in a PhD program at the UofA; I know it's a good school.

Edited January 7, 2018 by ttribe

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Five Solas said:

That's rather far from anything I actually wrote, Scott. 

Is it?

You made it fairly clear that in your evaluation of job applicants it weighs against someone’s chances if he avoids alcohol or attended a religious school, this because of an automatic assumption on your part that he is less than apt to be a good “cultural fit” for your shop and is apt to be judgmental of those around him. 

It would appear that you look for a certain kind of social conformity in the past behavior of your job applicants. Justify it if you will, but don’t try to tell us it signifies your esteem for diversity. It does just the opposite.