First Vision Video

[ksfisher]

25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Benjamin Seeker put me on to the source, below, and I would have found it more easily but for the lack of a good index for Lavina's critical text:  Anyhow, two versions of that event are contained on pp. 455-456 of Lavina Fielding Anderson, Lucy's Book: A Critical Edition of Lucy Mack Smith's Family Memoir (Signature Books, 2001):

These references don't indicate whether it was a customary place for family prayer before the vision or if it became so after.  I would lean towards it becoming so after.

[Robert F. Smith]

Just now, ksfisher said:

These references don't indicate whether it was a customary place for family prayer before the vision or if it became so after.  I would lean towards it becoming so after.

I lean toward a long-standing family tradition, sanctified by long practice.  Like me going to the celestial room at my local temple.  Of course I could pray anywhere, but long habit brings on the right mood or desired "zone."  I think of that clearing in the grove as the family "temple."

[hope_for_things]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

In April 2017 GC Cheryl C. Lant taught-

Brothers and sisters, we are the angels that Heavenly Father has sent today to bless the children, and we can help them to one day see the face of the Savior as we teach the principles of the gospel and fill our homes with the joy of living them. Together we can come to know Him. We can feel of His love and His blessings. And through Him we can return to the presence of the Father. We do this as we are willing to be obedient, faithful, and diligent in following His teachings.

“Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am” (D&C 93:1).

I read this quote very differently than the McKonkie quote.  We're seeing the face of the Savior in the faces of others that serve us.  Not a supernatural visitation from God, but a metaphorical seeing of God in the eyes of those that serve God by serving others.  

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Russel M. Nelson taught this in the late 1990s-

Brothers and sisters, race, nationality, occupation, or other interests need not stand in the way. All can look to the Lord. All can place him first in their lives. Those who do so and remain faithful will qualify for his sublime promise:”31 “Every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am.”32 This glorious destiny can be ours, I so testify in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

I don't think the church is distancing itself from D&C 93.

Elder Nelson doesn't attempt to interpret the scriptural reference, he just quotes it without exploring whether he thinks this is metaphorical or literal.  McKonkie espoused a much more literalistic interpretation as elucidated in many of his other talks and writings.  It sounds like you don't see an differences in the current message from the messages previously. 

Since you expressed earlier that change happens, I assume you're are you saying you're aware of change happening in the past, but that you don't see change happening on this specific topic.  I do see change happening, and I think the church will continue to change in the future as well. 

[theplains]

On 31/12/2017 at 6:35 PM, bsjkki said:

I hope they make a video of the first vision that mentions the other accounts but that is a little happier in tone.

How would you make it a little happier?

Thanks,
Jim

[bsjkki]

49 minutes ago, theplains said:

How would you make it a little happier?

Thanks,
Jim

It's a "tone" thing. I was reviewing it for use in Primary so it may be perfectly fine for adults. It is serious and somber and I think it was meant to be. 

[kiwi57]

On 1/3/2018 at 6:45 AM, hope_for_things said:

Perhaps a video of the 1832 account would be best.  They could also portray this more as a vision than as a visitation, by using some dreamlike elements in the production.  Joseph had an ecstatic experience of some kind and it was personally very meaningful to him.  You too can have meaningful peak experiences in your life.  This is the core message that could be communicated and applied to all Mormons and resonate in a 21st century spirituality seeking context.

IOW, instead of being faithful to Joseph's account, the Church should make it match your preferred interpretation.

It was an actual visitation, not a "dreamlike" experience.

On 1/3/2018 at 6:45 AM, hope_for_things said:

Instead what do we get out of the modern Mormon First Vision video portrayals?   Joseph has a literal visitation of the Father and the Son, not so much a vision or dream like experience, but something more tangible and concrete.

Which is what Joseph himself said that he had.

On 1/3/2018 at 6:45 AM, hope_for_things said:

   The current video presentation is used to give legitimacy to the whole Mormon church.

Oh, no! We can't possibly have that, can we?

On 1/3/2018 at 6:45 AM, hope_for_things said:

  Its not merely a personal experience for which Joseph is gaining motivation for living his religious life.  Instead it has been transformed into an experience that is wielded as evidence of institutional power.

It hasn't been "transformed" into anything. It is based upon the only non-polemical hermeneutic available to us, namely to start from the presumption that Joseph was telling the truth in all of his accounts.

On 1/3/2018 at 6:45 AM, hope_for_things said:

 Individuals aren't encouraged to approach God in prayer to replicate the experience Joseph had, they know that they can never experience what Joseph did, because his experience was unique and proof of the founding of a religious institution.   Yes, God answers prayers, but the way God answered Joseph was unique and tangible and not to be expected for an average person, this is the message.

Is that "the message," is it?

And does it say so, or is that merely your interpretation?

On 1/3/2018 at 6:45 AM, hope_for_things said:

In its effort to promote the authority of Mormonism, the institution has subverted the core message of personal mystical visionary prayers of redemption (a common experience in Joseph's time), and has transformed this message into a proof-text for promoting exclusivity. 

"Subverted?"

Could you be any more presumptuous?