Atheist Mormon Posted November 15, 2017 Posted November 15, 2017 19 hours ago, pogi said: Based on what...your perceptions? You have clearly been deceived by the "grand illusion". No? If illusions cannot be beneficial to our happiness and well-being or bring about "concrete" good in the world, then we might as well all give up now, because our life is a grand illusion. But we seem to make pretty good use of it if you ask me. If you want to opt out of illusory existence, then you will be without sensory input...that would suck! The power of myth and illusion is incredibly influential for good in the world. Mythology is an incredibly powerful influence for both good and evil in the world. That should be obvious in witnessing how religion can influence man for both good and evil. pogi, you use the words "illusion" "Mythy" more than reality.....I don't have much use for those happenstances because they don't pay my bills or contribute to enhance my lifestyle, happiness....Chasing an illusion is plain waste of time...all my sensory inputs are coming from the grey matter I have, so far those neurons are doing a good job, every now & then I have couple drinks with friends, even then I feel a good buzz but that is coming from my willingly poisoning blood stream thus creating a pleasant affect in my brain. I'll give you an example; you believe in Jesus (I assume), like millions of Americans worship Him without seeing any evidence, we skeptics OTOH cannot accept this just by the word of Scriptures, we need to see some visual evidence to be convinced and yet year after year none is forthcoming. I'm still open to the ideas until they become with material evidence.
pogi Posted November 15, 2017 Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: pogi, you use the words "illusion" "Mythy" more than reality.....I don't have much use for those happenstances because they don't pay my bills or contribute to enhance my lifestyle, happiness....Chasing an illusion is plain waste of time...all my sensory inputs are coming from the grey matter I have, so far those neurons are doing a good job, every now & then I have couple drinks with friends, even then I feel a good buzz but that is coming from my willingly poisoning blood stream thus creating a pleasant affect in my brain. I'll give you an example; you believe in Jesus (I assume), like millions of Americans worship Him without seeing any evidence, we skeptics OTOH cannot accept this just by the word of Scriptures, we need to see some visual evidence to be convinced and yet year after year none is forthcoming. I'm still open to the ideas until they become with material evidence. I get it, you don't believe in religious claims because they are not objectively measurable with material evidence. Instead, you choose to believe in scientific claims which are based in "reality". In your mind, your brain can tell you what is and what is not "real". You trust your sensory inputs to relay valid, undeniable facts. You believe that your neurons are doing a "good job" of showing you "reality". But such a belief is simply a myth which you have bought into. You see, you are not that much different from me after all! We simply choose to find value in different myths and illusions. I know, I know...you are not going to take my word for it, or a prophet's word for it, that is why I gave you a link to a journal of neuroscience which it appears you did not read. In case you missed it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4116780/ Neuroscientists agree that everything we experience is a "figment of our imagination". This is claimed as a "fact of neuroscience". So, you can open your eyes to the grand illusion and dispel old myths of reality, or continue blissfully ignorant of the illusion of reality. Want more? Quote It is a fact of neuroscience that everything we experience is a figment of our imagination. Although our sensations feel accurate and truthful, they do not necessarily reproduce the physical reality of the outside world. Of course, many experiences in daily life reflect the physical stimuli that send signals to the brain. But the same neural machinery that interprets inputs from our eyes, ears and other sensory organs is also responsible for our dreams, delusions and failings of memory. In other words, the real and the imagined share a physical source in the brain. So take a lesson from Socrates: “All I know is that I know nothing.”https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-neuroscience-of-illusion/ If you want more references just ask. I will direct you to other neuroscientists like Bruce Hood and Sam Harris, which will blow your mind and open your understanding to the workings of the brain and our perceptions of reality. This is what your precious science is telling you, so listen! Edited November 15, 2017 by pogi 1
mfbukowski Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, pogi said: I get it, you don't believe in religious claims because they are not objectively measurable with material evidence. Instead, you choose to believe in scientific claims which are based in "reality". In your mind, your brain can tell you what is and what is not "real". You trust your sensory inputs to relay valid, undeniable facts. You believe that your neurons are doing a "good job" of showing you "reality". But such a belief is simply a myth which you have bought into. You see, you are not that much different from me after all! We simply choose to find value in different myths and illusions. I know, I know...you are not going to take my word for it, or a prophet's word for it, that is why I gave you a link to a journal of neuroscience which it appears you did not read. In case you missed it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4116780/ Neuroscientists agree that everything we experience is a "figment of our imagination". This is claimed as a "fact of neuroscience". So, you can open your eyes to the grand illusion and dispel old myths of reality, or continue blissfully ignorant of the illusion of reality. Want more? If you want more references just ask. I will direct you to other neuroscientists like Bruce Hood and Sam Harris, which will blow your mind and open your understanding to the workings of the brain and our perceptions of reality. This is what your precious science is telling you, so listen! He seems to be saying the placebo effect is illusion Science sure does not think that "It's all in your mind" What isn't? Where is everything you know if not in your mind/brain whatever you want to call it?? And if you were born in China in 5000 BC, all that you know would still be in the same place This is a good one: Quote What are the properties of consciousness? What should a science of consciousness try to explain? Well, for today I’d just like to think of consciousness in two different ways. There are experiences of the world around us, full of sights, sounds and smells, there’s multisensory, panoramic, 3D, fully immersive inner movie. And then there’s conscious self. The specific experience of being you or being me. The lead character in this inner movie, and probably the aspect of consciousness we all cling to most tightly. Let’s start with experiences of the world around us, and with the important idea of the brain as a prediction engine. Imagine being a brain. You’re locked inside a bony skull, trying to figure what’s out there in the world. There’s no lights inside the skull. There’s no sound either. All you’ve got to go on is streams of electrical impulses which are only indirectly related to things in the world, whatever they may be. So perception — figuring out what’s there — has to be a process of informed guesswork in which the brain combines these sensory signals with its prior expectations or beliefs about the way the world is to form its best guess of what caused those signals. The brain doesn’t hear sound or see light. What we perceive is its best guess of what’s out there in the world. I tried to embed this but TED videos don't embed so here is the link https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality Yes there are cliffs out there we can fall off of - but YOUR experience of falling off the cliff will be entirely different than mine. It would be awfully odd if images of YOUR life passed before my mind as I was dying. But if Atheist is right, that is what should happen since after all reality is the same for everyone. Edited November 16, 2017 by mfbukowski
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