Gray Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Easy! There are plenty of religious text out there and yet only the Bible has been at the center of disagreements, wars, historical studies, etc., etc., etc., for over 2000 years. No other text can claim that! Name one if you can! This would logically only be true if GOD was set on making HIS VERY WORD the witness to the world. It doesn't take rocket science to discern the obvious only an open heart seeking after GOD. Your criteria, which seem to to rest on how much fighting has surrounded the text, are also subjective. Believe it or not there are other ancient holy books that have also caused a lot of contention. 1
LittleNipper Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: Yup, that got me. A truly enlightened response. Living in the south growing up, having all my family in the south - good thing I never talked to any of my neighbors and certainly none of their preachers. I am also glad we never baptized that Assemblies of God preacher - that would have been trouble if anyone knew I taught him the gospel of Jesus Christ and he gained a testimony by the power of the Holy Ghost. Yup, you are definitely in the know. I rest much easier knowing you are there. Cheers and Adieu People do not go from believing in Christ to believing in ANOTHER Christ --- though people have placed their salvation on club membership. That, a true Christian should realize doesn't achieve salvation. This is exactly the message Christ and His Apostles had to say to the Pharisees and Sadducees. The rich man didn't go the hell for not being a Jew anymore than poor Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom for meeting all the requirements of the LAW. Edited October 26, 2017 by LittleNipper
LittleNipper Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 6 minutes ago, Gray said: Your criteria, which seem to to rest on how much fighting has surrounded the text, are also subjective. Believe it or not there are other ancient holy books that have also caused a lot of contention. Name one that isn't connected with the Bible and has been in contention for thousands of years. I'd love to read it!
LittleNipper Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 16 hours ago, bluebell said: That only affects the bible if the person first believes that the bible must be inerrant to be true. If a person knows that the bible is not free from error and that God expects the person to use the Holy Ghost and other of His sources to understand the bible correctly, then there is no pretense in a flawed bible. Let me give you an example. Did Noah exist? Was the Flood world wide? Jesus said , "As in the days of Noah..." Something cannot be as something that never occurred. So either one accepts the Flood as factual or one must say that Christ was wrong. If Christ makes errors, then He is far from perfect. And if Christ is not perfect, how can He save those who are as imperfect as Himself? The Holy Ghost uses Christians (if they allow Him) and not visa versa.
thesometimesaint Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: When/where was the last service devoted to Zeus you attended? Now remember, that the Pantheon in Rome was converted to a church and not the other way around. My attendance or non-attendance is Irrelevant to what I believe. BTW I've attended about a half a dozen different sects of Christianity meetings, but believe only one of them. I always thought being informed about other religion's beliefs an important part of understanding them, even if I don't accept that belief for myself. It was the Greek Gods that Roman's used. 1
Gray Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 13 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Name one that isn't connected with the Bible and has been in contention for thousands of years. I'd love to read it! Your reading list is set for the next decade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_texts 2
LittleNipper Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 As a Fundamentalist, Bible believing, Born-again Christian (and an outsider observing Mormonism), I can see exactly how Mormons in general can get easily sucked into the fallacy that the Bible is full of errors. They have spent nearly 200 years trying to explain issues surround the book of Mormon, and yet from a Biblical Student's perspective, the Book of Mormon was written only yesterday and for all the reasons it (Mormonism) presupposes Biblical error.
thesometimesaint Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Let me give you an example. Did Noah exist? Was the Flood world wide? Jesus said , "As in the days of Noah..." Something cannot be as something that never occurred. So either one accepts the Flood as factual or one must say that Christ was wrong. If Christ makes errors, then He is far from perfect. And if Christ is not perfect, how can He save those who are as imperfect as Himself? The Holy Ghost uses Christians (if they allow Him) and not visa versa. Yes I believe Noah existed. I believe he was a prophet of God. I believe God told him to build a boat. I believe Noah did what God told him to do to save as much as he could. That Noah accurately described what he witnessed a massive albeit regional flood. Jesus may have been perfect. Those recording what he said were not. So your God determined in advance whom would hear about God from Christians? Damning to burn in hell for eternity those that didn't even hear about him in this life. Sounds like a petty, terrible, God to me.
thesometimesaint Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: As a Fundamentalist, Bible believing, Born-again Christian (and an outsider observing Mormonism), I can see exactly how Mormons in general can get easily sucked into the fallacy that the Bible is full of errors. They have spent nearly 200 years trying to explain issues surround the book of Mormon, and yet from a Biblical Student's perspective, the Book of Mormon was written only yesterday and for all the reasons it (Mormonism) presupposes Biblical error. So an old error is better than a new error? BTW Mormons don't believe in an inerrant Book of Mormon. Edited October 26, 2017 by thesometimesaint 1
LittleNipper Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 7 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: My attendance or non-attendance is Irrelevant to what I believe. BTW I've attended about a half a dozen different sects of Christianity meetings, but believe only one of them. I always thought being informed about other religion's beliefs an important part of understanding them, even if I don't accept that belief for myself. It was the Greek Gods that Roman's used. Well, what do you believe? BTW, other denominations are not necessarily not related. Very often one will find the moving of the Holy Spirit at work presenting the fact of Christ in a variety of cultural settings. I am very much at ease in some Baptist settings, Brethren settings, Mennonite settings, Methodist settings, Presbyterian settings, Anglican Settings. All must have their foundation in CHRIST JESUS, but many sprang up under the instruction of different missionaries, in different locals.
Jane_Doe Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 9 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: As a Fundamentalist, Bible believing, Born-again Christian (and an outsider observing Mormonism), I can see exactly how Mormons in general can get easily sucked into the fallacy that the Bible is full of errors. Please, don't grossly mischaracterize like this LDS beliefs like this. It's just as grossly inaccurate as the anti-Fundlementalist argument "Fundamentalists believe that the Bible fell out of sky and knocked some priest in the head" . Such gross cartoonizations only cause division and hatred on both sides and drive Christ away from us all. 1
Popular Post Jane_Doe Posted October 26, 2017 Popular Post Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, LittleNipper said: My educated guess "frankly" is that you don't discuss the Bible with many Evangelicals or Bible believing Christians... Some people would rather bury their head in their own doctrine. I'm married to an Evangelical, my best gal friends are Calvary Chapel and Methodist. We are talk about faith regularly and visit each other's churches. I a HUGE fan of inter-faith dialogue and understanding, and make it a point to attend services at at least 6 denominations other than my own a year. I find that by visiting people and letting them show you their honest love of God, is the best way to come to love them more. 5
LittleNipper Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 23 minutes ago, Gray said: Your reading list is set for the next decade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_texts First, I said one. Secondly, such would have to be contested and older than the Bible. Thirdly, unless redemption is the key to salvation, one would be just as lost after reading such a novel as one was to begin with. I never met Buddha, but I understand he didn't necessary believe in GOD --- only the power within himself.
thesometimesaint Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 I'm a long time convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I converted at age 20 after attending various Christian Sects meetings. Prior to that I was largely Agnostic. Neither of my parents were LDS, but were good Christians, and none of my sibs are LDS either. Both are Atheists. I'm perfectly comfortable in different religions meetings. Though I doubt I'd be really comfortable in a meeting about how evil Mormons are. I do generally find them interesting to know about, even if I don't decide to belong to them. Why are you not a Catholic Christian? It is far older than any Protestant Christian Sect in the world, and has more Bible than your Christian Sect does.
JLHPROF Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 54 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: People do not go from believing in Christ to believing in ANOTHER Christ --- though people have placed their salvation on club membership. That, a true Christian should realize doesn't achieve salvation. This is exactly the message Christ and His Apostles had to say to the Pharisees and Sadducees. The rich man didn't go the hell for not being a Jew anymore than poor Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom for meeting all the requirements of the LAW. There is only one Christ. The fact that some misunderstand his attributes doesn't change that. And you are correct - the law doesn't achieve salvation. But for those who are saved through Jesus Christ he requires the keeping of his commandments in order to inherit his glory. 1
JLHPROF Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 45 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Let me give you an example. Did Noah exist? Was the Flood world wide? Jesus said , "As in the days of Noah..." Something cannot be as something that never occurred. So either one accepts the Flood as factual or one must say that Christ was wrong. If Christ makes errors, then He is far from perfect. And if Christ is not perfect, how can He save those who are as imperfect as Himself? The Holy Ghost uses Christians (if they allow Him) and not visa versa. Agree 100% except the last sentence.
LittleNipper Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Please, don't grossly mischaracterize like this LDS beliefs like this. It's just as grossly inaccurate as the anti-Fundlementalist argument "Fundamentalists believe that the Bible fell out of sky and knocked some priest in the head" . Such gross cartoonizations only cause division and hatred on both sides and drive Christ away from us all. It seems that you more annoyed at my audacity to question Mormon logic than you are in understanding that the Bible is the word of GOD; written by men of GOD, through the moving of the Holy Spirit to present the truth perfectly and seal the text so that it remains unaltered. I never said that the Bible fell from heaven fully written. I do believe that GOD selected specific individuals to write down the holy scriptures. Some of it was very specifically dictated and some of it was from inspiration of the Holy Spirit. However, all of it was as GOD wanted it and nothing was added or edited as simply a gossip column. The reality is that every portion of the Bible reveals CHRIST: His purpose, His linage, His future, and how believers benefit from His plan.
Jane_Doe Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: It seems that you more annoyed at my audacity I do find your behavior here to be disrespectful and unbefitting of a Christian, yes. But it is specifically your behavior I'm point to, not your message. I would be thrilled to have a respectful conversation with you and respectfully talk about different views. Would you like that as well?
LittleNipper Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: There is only one Christ. The fact that some misunderstand his attributes doesn't change that. And you are correct - the law doesn't achieve salvation. But for those who are saved through Jesus Christ he requires the keeping of his commandments in order to inherit his glory. NO, actually you will find in the Bible that the only thing one gains from works (as purely a saved individual) are rewards in eternity. Salvation is not a matter of works. And GOD's glory is only HIS own. We cannot become GOD. The saved can only get back to the Garden and what GOD originally intended for Adam. This I realize is NOT a Mormon belief. However, we are speaking about Biblical inerrancy.
Jane_Doe Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 1 minute ago, LittleNipper said: NO, actually you will find in the Bible that the only thing one gains from works (as purely a saved individual) are rewards in eternity. Salvation is not a matter of works. And GOD's glory is only HIS own. Over the years I have attended >40 different Abrahamic sects, and never once have I encountered one that says salvation is won by works of men. And never once have I encountered one that says God's glory belongs to anyone but God. 2
Gray Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 51 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: As a Fundamentalist, Bible believing, Born-again Christian (and an outsider observing Mormonism), I can see exactly how Mormons in general can get easily sucked into the fallacy that the Bible is full of errors. They have spent nearly 200 years trying to explain issues surround the book of Mormon, and yet from a Biblical Student's perspective, the Book of Mormon was written only yesterday and for all the reasons it (Mormonism) presupposes Biblical error. There is no question that the Bible is full of errors. This isn't a Mormon thing - it's a Biblical studies thing. 4
thesometimesaint Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 13 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: It seems that you more annoyed at my audacity to question Mormon logic than you are in understanding that the Bible is the word of GOD; written by men of GOD, through the moving of the Holy Spirit to present the truth perfectly and seal the text so that it remains unaltered. I never said that the Bible fell from heaven fully written. I do believe that GOD selected specific individuals to write down the holy scriptures. Some of it was very specifically dictated and some of it was from inspiration of the Holy Spirit. However, all of it was as GOD wanted it and nothing was added or edited as simply a gossip column. The reality is that every portion of the Bible reveals CHRIST: His purpose, His linage, His future, and how believers benefit from His plan. I''m still waiting for that revelation from Jesus that proves the four corners of the earth.
Gray Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 30 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: First, I said one. Secondly, such would have to be contested and older than the Bible. Thirdly, unless redemption is the key to salvation, one would be just as lost after reading such a novel as one was to begin with. I never met Buddha, but I understand he didn't necessary believe in GOD --- only the power within himself. You're moving the goal posts. This is what you asked for: "Name one that isn't connected with the Bible and has been in contention for thousands of years. I'd love to read it! " I delivered what you asked for. Several of these are as old or older than the Hebrew Bible, although that wasn't one of your original criteria. 1
thesometimesaint Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: NO, actually you will find in the Bible that the only thing one gains from works (as purely a saved individual) are rewards in eternity. Salvation is not a matter of works. And GOD's glory is only HIS own. We cannot become GOD. The saved can only get back to the Garden and what GOD originally intended for Adam. This I realize is NOT a Mormon belief. However, we are speaking about Biblical inerrancy. God said "Man has become like one of us, knowing good from evil". Apparently the Gods want us to become like them. Not like little children not knowing good from evil. Edited October 26, 2017 by thesometimesaint 1
JLHPROF Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 7 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: the only thing one gains from works (as purely a saved individual) are rewards in eternity. Salvation is not a matter of works. That is EXACTLY what I said. Salvation from the grave is a free gift to all. Christ put conditions on salvation in his Father's kingdom. And then we work to gain additional rewards and responsibility in eternity and because Christ commanded it. There are numerous commandments of Christ that will impact our final destination. 1. Salvation from the dead - free gift to all but perdition 2. Salvation in God's kingdom - requires a couple of things, baptism being the most recognizable. 3. Ruling and reigning in God's kingdom as joint heirs with Christ (what LDS call exaltation) - requires obedience to ALL God's commands and ordinances. Quote And GOD's glory is only HIS own. We cannot become GOD. The saved can only get back to the Garden and what GOD originally intended for Adam. This I realize is NOT a Mormon belief. However, we are speaking about Biblical inerrancy. That's not a Biblical belief either. You should reread Romans 6-8. It describes all these things clearly.
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