Visitors from behind the Veil?

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

You don't think announcing your "too sacred to share" experience unnecessarily creates an unjustified expectation as to what this experience actually was? For instance, I could say, as a new member trying to adapt to my new "too sacred to say" group, I had such an experience that was super sacred and I can't tell you about it. However, in actuality, it's just the normal warm fuzzy answer one gets from moroni's promise. Nevertheless, you and the world at large thinks it is something bigger because the warm fuzzy is so common.

This is the second example that falls flat. My first response applies to this one as well. I suggest you respond to each of my questions and comments.

[cdowis]

2 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

You don't think announcing your "too sacred to share" experience unnecessarily creates an unjustified expectation as to what this experience actually was?

I have shared my personal experience in testimony meetings and to my family, but it is too sacred to share with the whore of Babylon, as commanded by Christ.

[Stargazer]

On 8/7/2017 at 9:17 AM, Pete Ahlstrom said:

The "too sacred to share" seems to be subject to too much abuse.  It promotes people making up stuff like I used to hear when I was in the MTC.  One missionary in my MTC district was sure the apostles knew how to solve hunger, etc, because, you know, they speak to Jesus every day.  Jesus, however, forbids them to talk about it so we can be tested.  It's too sacred to share with the world.  Too bad for the starving child in Africa.

It's also a method, in some, don't you think, to make themselves out to be more spiritual than they really are?  Look at me, I had an experience that was too sacred to tell, just like the apostles.  Then the listener is left to wonder what magnificent and marvelous experience the teller of the story really had.  It certainly must have been stupendous because, you know, "it's too sacred to share."

It seems that that one missionary in your MTC district was just speculating on something he had no knowledge of. That's hardly abuse. How many times have you heard LDS members declaring that they had had experiences too sacred to share?  In my entire 51 years in the Church I don't think I have ever heard anyone use that phrase about their own experiences.

I've occasionally written here of sacred experiences I've had, when it seemed pertinent and when it felt right to recount them. I don't think I've ever claimed to have had experiences too sacred to share. On some occasions in my life I've started to write or speak about some experience I have had, and then got the distinct impression that I should not share it at that time.  It seems to me that to just come out with that claim out of context would tread right into inappropriateness.  "I know something I can't tell! Nyah, nyah!"  Generally, if you have had an experience too sacred to share, then you probably shouldn't even share that you've had one.  Unless the spirit permits, and in that case you'd just come out with it, possibly with the caveat to one's listeners to keep it to themselves.

Although one time Elder Packer gave a conference talk where he described how another member of the Twelve bore testimony:

I have heard one of my brethren declare: “I know from 
experiences, too sacred to relate, that Jesus is the Christ.”

He didn't indicate where this was said, but one gets the impression that it might have been during one of the meetings of the Twelve and the First Presidency.  The full talk HERE.

And of course the Twelve are Special Witnesses of Jesus Christ, and one might expect them to have experiences that are kept in confidence. I'm sure there are many members of the Church who have seen that which the Spirit does not permit them to utter. (D&C 76:114,115)

Edited August 9, 2017 by Stargazer

[PeterPear]

John 3

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

-------

You likely don't have spiritual experiences because you don't believe in modern revelation about earthly things.

You know, you believe Noah's flood was regional and limited not a universal flood - or - 

You believe Adam & Eve and all humanity evolved from ape-creature-things -or-

You promote and believe that the Prophet Joseph Smith didn't know the geography of The Book of Mormon but mispoke and learned of it later from a travel book written by John Lloyd Stephens...and there are two Hill Cumorah's and Lehi's, Ishmael's and Mulek's ancestors integrated with the Maya or whatever the nonsense excuses are for that MesoAmerica geography.

Hey Brother! Did you know Joseph Smith and all the early Saints were idiots because they thought the actual Hill Cumorah is in New York and not in Mexico/Guatemala? And tell me again why my prayers aren't answered? Because I don't have enough faith in my leaders that what they say are true? Oh yeah. And Brigham Young was a racist scumbag because he didn't give the Priesthood to eveybody. And ordain my sister a Deacon, ok? /sarcasm off

[Meerkat]

On 7/30/2017 at 8:09 PM, Duncan said:

My question is why do some people have these extraordinary experiences and visions and stuff and others are left blowing in the wind with not much to grab onto? like are we not good enough or anything? We can't independantly verify my German grandparents birthdates, like my dad's German family history is this blackhole that they all fell into and we just can't find any of them, should I be looking for visitors from beyond the grave? 

I have had a few profound experiences along these lines.  Some were in the beginning of our membership nearly 45 years ago.  Some have come after years of fasting, prayer and other things.  I attribute them to the promise in Ether 4:18 "Therefore, repent all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and believe in my gospel, and be baptized in my name; for he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned; and signs shall follow them that believe in my name."