Transparency...in a new day

[probablyHagoth7]

On 5/26/2017 at 6:43 PM, Storm Rider said:

There is a reason that a prophet is never respected in his own land.  Why is he not respected?  

Transparency is a wonderful term that almost everyone supports, until it is transparency about their own lives, actions, thoughts, and worlds is at stake.  At that point the vast majority draw a line and say, "Absolutely not!" or "That is none of your business".  We are pretty hypocritical about these things.  It is okay to support the concept of transparency for everyone else, but not ourselves.  If we want transparency from others then start being transparent about ourselves.  

As for me, I don't think transparency is needed nearly as much as some want it.  I choose to enforce the same standards of others that I expect of myself.   

Recent discussions, experiences, readings and films, including the other Transparency thread, is shifting some of my views about transparency, and about the concept of church, on a personal level, and on a larger level, which has led me to a careful review of this:

Rev 4:6, D&C 77:1, Rev 15:2...stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God, D&C 130:7, Rev 21/22...and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;...And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass....and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass....And he shewed me a pure river of ^awater of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

D&C 109:73  That thy ^achurch may come forth out of the wilderness of darkness, and shine forth fair as the ^bmoon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners;

Which raises the question, with whom are we to be transparent as individuals, and as a community?

Edited May 28, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[aprorianalysis]

 

Still to reflect

 

To reflect genuinely takes practice like anything, billiards, tai chi, swimming, even tennis. Some that are considered athletics may do good in one field by a long shot, is because they practiced, yes I believe so.  Are they transparent I do not know?

 

The same with belief, some of our mind activities promote unity from within, and other is a so called rationalization scheme that will take time to overcome.  The mere belief can be the trick part, not real genuine belief, nor is it to say that it is deceitful and not even valid but to take something and believe it is true when it is false takes away from the true essence of a real belief into that lie that claims victory over our self declared attitudes that I know what it is about.

 

So heeding to the lie can be a real pitfall, di-chotomizing our belief structure, minimizing our mind endowment with the spirit and the truth giver from above.  Obvious less transparent. 

 

So what mind physics is mostly important to cultivate. Is it honest, is it openness to others advice, is it humility is it constraints or discipline or is kindness and simple gestures of goodwill.

 

I do not supposed that religion should be the ultimate answer to the above questions, but it seems that it is but it is more than that.  You see humans, or at least I seem to go off on a tangent, where as you may not and staying even is your cup of tea.  What I mean is that when we store up resentment and cultivate an ideal we are similar to the self righteous motions of an aggrandizement to ones declared beliefs.  I do not mean the animated motions that produced zeal or military type behaviors, but having said this it is an authoritative problem, a disconnect with unity, to believe you are the one that is self aggrandizing and you belief it is some sort of right to do so.

 

What is self aggrandizing the word as it used or miss used where we say it or not.  Well the ideal or the aggrandizement comes from the self that is doing the thinking, as a form of substitute god, and philosophically if what we do and think is a reflection of the inner man false or true, it will come forth as a so called good soil or bad soil. We are therefore always locked into the physics of sowing what we reap.  Does anyone hear me out there and this above state conveniently hits them as obvious, or after reflecting on what I typed think that the problem is deeper, please explain to others, and to me here in this blog, what is the purposeful nature of the creative act of our lives without two important essential; values, and meaning.  Where do these come from? Heaven or earth, is our conscious training positive or negative. Are we prepared or have the skills to over come our conditioning, and choose higher and higher valus from an element to unbias understanding without self and in humility.  I do not contend with but it is a courageous decision to step aside and allow the will of the father to kick in.  That might be what transparency is but I do not know? .

 

[Glenn101]

 

1 hour ago, aprorianalysis said:

I do not contend with but it is a courageous decision to step aside and allow the will of the father to kick in.  That might be what transparency is but I do not know? .

Maybe we have to have enough faith to let the Holy Ghost illuminate the shadows. Maybe that is the only real transparency that will increase testimonies.

 

[Robert F. Smith]

20 hours ago, probablyHagoth7 said:

................................................................

Rev 4:6, D&C 77:1, Rev 15:2...stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God, D&C 130:7, Rev 21/22...and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;...And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass....and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass....And he shewed me a pure river of ^awater of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

D&C 109:73  That thy ^achurch may come forth out of the wilderness of darkness, and shine forth fair as the ^bmoon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners;

Which raises the question, with whom are we to be transparent as individuals, and as a community?

Not sure that any of those citations have anything to do with the sort of transparency which you are discussing.

[CV75]

21 hours ago, probablyHagoth7 said:

 

Which raises the question, with whom are we to be transparent as individuals, and as a community?

I agree with Robert (above). The kind of transparency discussed most often on this board seems to relate to the visibility or accessibility of information concerning the Church’s fiscal and business practices, and also her history, founders and leaders, and doctrine. Some argue for more; none argue for less; and most seem satisfied with the way things are fiscally and business-wise and the direction she is taking with presenting her history and doctrines. Those who argue for more transparency seem to emphasize secular democratic and legal principles from a standpoint of being left out, and those who are satisfied seem to emphasize common consent as a blend of theocratic and democratic principles ensuring their participation in the kingdom.

I’ve sometimes said that the relationship between common consent as practiced in the Church and the transparency of her material stewardship is the same as that which exists between exercising faith and obtaining knowledge or light, but we are dealing primarily with “truth” and not merely “information,” and with covenants and not just policies and processes.

[probablyHagoth7]

58 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Not sure that any of those citations have anything to do with the sort of transparency which you are discussing.

Agreed.

This is not commentary on the other thread, but is instead a different riff.

If I felt it was directly related to the kind of transparency in the other thread's OP, I would have posted this initial content there.

Edited May 29, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[probablyHagoth7]

23 minutes ago, CV75 said:

...The kind of transparency discussed most often on this board....

Not speaking about that. We don't control what the church opts to disclose.

Thinking instead of focusing on what I control, tweaking my own approach to opennness/disclosure.

In the general context of Gandhi's "be the change you want to see in the world," which parallels worthwhile counsel received long ago.

23 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I’ve sometimes said that the relationship between common consent as practiced in the Church and the transparency of her material stewardship is the same as that which exists between exercising faith and obtaining knowledge or light...

Would you elaborate on that a bit please?

Edited May 29, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[CV75]

39 minutes ago, probablyHagoth7 said:

Not speaking about that. We don't control what the church opts to disclose.

Thinking instead of focusing on what I control, tweaking my own approach to opennness/disclosure.

In the general context of Gandhi's "be the change you want to see in the world," which parallels worthwhile counsel received long ago.

Would you elaborate on that a bit please?

In that case, I think as individuals we are transparent when we let our light shine. We possess that light by drawing close to God, but unfortunately we may also have impediments to that light shining forth, such things as unwillingness, embarrassment, hypocrisy, etc. In both cases, these are attitudes that we control; they are not imposed upon us by the misperception, unwillingness or interference of others. So we need to overcome that internal conflict (seeking God on one hand, being ashamed of Him on the other) in order to be transparent in the way you're referring to. This tells me that transparency is the presence of divine light that comes by awakening to God, or being spiritually reborn, which provides the light on one hand and dispels the impediments on the other.

Elaboration: Alma 32 teaches that faith and knowledge drive each other. The spiritual principle of common consent is an exercise of faith which is answered with spiritual transparency, or spiritual visibility and access (or understanding, recognition or insight) that our decision-makers are in alignment with the Lord in any particular decision. Another way of putting it is, our perception of truth becomes stronger, and the resulting transparency in turn strengthens our common consent.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, CV75 said:

In that case, I think as individuals we are transparent when we let our light shine. We possess that light by drawing close to God, but unfortunately we may also have impediments to that light shining forth, such things as unwillingness, embarrassment, hypocrisy, etc. In both cases, these are attitudes that we control; they are not imposed upon us by the misperception, unwillingness or interference of others. So we need to overcome that internal conflict (seeking God on one hand, being ashamed of Him on the other) in order to be transparent in the way you're referring to. This tells me that transparency is the presence of divine light that comes by awakening to God, or being spiritually reborn, which provides the light on one hand and dispels the impediments on the other.

Elaboration: Alma 32 teaches that faith and knowledge drive each other. The spiritual principle of common consent is an exercise of faith which is answered with spiritual transparency, or spiritual visibility and access (or understanding, recognition or insight) that our decision-makers are in alignment with the Lord in any particular decision. Another way of putting it is, our perception of truth becomes stronger, and the resulting transparency in turn strengthens our common consent.

Alma 32 does help a great deal, but see also Alma 9:23, D&C 83:2 for the esoteric standard of even greater light and knowledge received during temple rites.

[The Nehor]

I demand transparency as to what is up with the font sizes in this thread.

[CV75]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I demand transparency as to what is up with the font sizes in this thread.

See the following explanation: "                                                                                                                                                                                            "

Hmmm... seems to be too transparent.

[CV75]

8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Alma 32 does help a great deal, but see also Alma 9:23, D&C 83:2 for the esoteric standard of even greater light and knowledge received during temple rites.

Are you saying that those who share temple information and related insight and experience are transgressing contrary to the light and knowledge they have received there? I agree that would not be a transparency facilitated by the Spirit.

(PS it's D&C 82:3... :)).

I think it is a great gift to covenant with the Lord and participate in His kingdom through common consent. I think it is a unifying principle, promotes charity, and is how we acquire light and knowledge. Spiritual transparency comes by the Holy Ghost bearing record.

 

[probablyHagoth7]

On 5/28/2017 at 5:57 PM, aprorianalysis said:

 

Still to reflect

...is our conscious training positive or negative. Are we prepared or have the skills to over come our conditioning, and choose higher and higher valus from an element to unbias understanding without self and in humility.  I do not contend with but it is a courageous decision to step aside and allow the will of the father to kick in.  That might be what transparency is but I do not know? .

Good/timely counsel.

Reminds me of what Joseph said, "How long can rolling waters remain impure? What power shall stay the heavens? As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream, as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints."

[probablyHagoth7]

On 5/28/2017 at 7:00 PM, Glenn101 said:

Maybe we have to have enough faith to let the Holy Ghost illuminate the shadows. Maybe that is the only real transparency that will increase testimonies.

In that vein, it sometimes requires a willingness, like Nephi, to step forward in faith, only having enough light to see one step ahead, not knowing beforehand what will happen next.

"...one step enough..."

Edited May 30, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[probablyHagoth7]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Are you saying that those who share temple information and related insight and experience are transgressing contrary to the light and knowledge they have received there? I agree that would not be a transparency facilitated by the Spirit.

(PS it's D&C 82:3... :)).

I think it is a great gift to covenant with the Lord and participate in His kingdom through common consent. I think it is a unifying principle, promotes charity, and is how we acquire light and knowledge. Spiritual transparency comes by the Holy Ghost bearing record.

Your assessment about sharing would hinge on a few things, including (i) one's specific commission, and (ii) whether prior to sharing, one knowingly/willingly accepted any previously-disclosed consequences for sharing.

Edited May 30, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

Are you saying that those who share temple information and related insight and experience are transgressing contrary to the light and knowledge they have received there? I agree that would not be a transparency facilitated by the Spirit.

(PS it's D&C 82:3... :)).

I think it is a great gift to covenant with the Lord and participate in His kingdom through common consent. I think it is a unifying principle, promotes charity, and is how we acquire light and knowledge. Spiritual transparency comes by the Holy Ghost bearing record.

Thanks for the correction.

Yes, the people of Ammonihah had sinned against greater “light and knowledge” (Alma 9:23), after having received “the gift of the Holy Ghost” (9:21), and various other spiritual gifts – including participation in esoteric rites de passage (implied throughout the text; cf. Alma 15:17, 16:13).  Moreover, they had burned the Scriptures and murdered believers (14:8), and were involved with the diabolical Order of Nehor (14:16,18, 16:11).  Like the Hellenizing Jews who went along with the blasphemies of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, their fate was sealed, and they may have been subject to Hebrew ḥērem, i.e., a divine “ban” of irredeemable “proscription (consecration through destruction),”[1] Desolation being the result in each case (1 Maccabees 1:54, 2 Macc 6:2, Alma 10:23, 16:2-11, 25:2).

---

[1] J. Milgrom, Leviticus 23-27, Anchor Bible 3B (Doubleday, 2000), 2391, 2403, 2418, citing 9^th century B.C. Moabite ḥrm (Mesha Inscription).

[CV75]

3 hours ago, probablyHagoth7 said:

Your assessment about sharing would hinge on a few things, including (i) one's specific commission, and (ii) whether prior to sharing, one knowingly/willingly accepted any previously-disclosed consequences for sharing.

Yes, on the subject of transparency, it seems to me that the Lord would use perfect judgement in condemning those who mishandle sacred light and knowledge.