JLHPROF Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 40 minutes ago, The Nehor said: How comprehensive do many imagine this to be. There are still tribes uncontacted by global civilization. Do we have to preach to all of them before the Savior returns? That's kind of my point. What exactly is the dividing line? Not every person on earth needs to hear the gospel preached before Christ can return. As long as the doctrines of the gospel can be found worldwide I'm not sure what other benchmark needs to be reached.
thesometimesaint Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 20 hours ago, Teancum said: Indeed. While Mormons love to think the LDS church has made some significant impact in the world it really is hardly noticed at all. 16 million members with maybe 30 to 35% activity world wide? Hardly makes any difference to almost all the humans on this planet. We have never claimed that everyone will accept the Restored Gospel, and be active in it.
Ouagadougou Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: We have never claimed that everyone will accept the Restored Gospel, and be active in it. Everyone as is in 99% of the world, right? 16,000,000 / 7,000,000,000 = 0.00228571428 If you look at the size/numbers of the LDS Church on the global level, it's very insignificant. Now, how many of those 16 million members are active members? Edited April 3, 2017 by Ouagadougou
thesometimesaint Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said: Everyone as is in 99% of the world, right? 16,000,000 / 7,000,000,000 = 0.00228571428 If you look at the size/numbers of the LDS Church on the global level, it's very insignificant. Now, how many of those 16 million members are active members? What percentage of salt does it take to flavor the whole loaf?
Teancum Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: We have never claimed that everyone will accept the Restored Gospel, and be active in it. really? Do you recall when we touted being the fastest growing church in the world? Don't you recall the claims that the LDS Church is the stone cut out of the mountains with out hands from Daniel's prophecy that would fill the whole earth? And oh by the way where did I say EVERYONE would accept the "restored gospel?" But it is more than far from everyone,. It is almost nobody. 1
Ouagadougou Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 21 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: What percentage of salt does it take to flavor the whole loaf? Around 1.8 percent 😀 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_percentage That would mean the church would need to be 126,000,000 strong to "flavor the earth," if we are treating all humanity as a load of bread. The church's size is less than one percent (.002) of all humans on earth right now...very insignificant IMO. 1
clarkgoble Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 24 minutes ago, Teancum said: really? Do you recall when we touted being the fastest growing church in the world? Don't you recall the claims that the LDS Church is the stone cut out of the mountains with out hands from Daniel's prophecy that would fill the whole earth? And oh by the way where did I say EVERYONE would accept the "restored gospel?" But it is more than far from everyone,. It is almost nobody. I always found tracking growth as evidence is incorrect. Just looking at the Book of Mormon, our template, you see periods of growth and periods where few accepted the gospel. I'd expect the same. That said, I think little to no growth would be a major problem. We should have some growth. But the kind of triumpheratism you saw in the 80's and 90's always struck me as unseemly. But back to the question at hand, we are still growing and most of the world still hasn't had a chance at the message. So there's a lot more we could be doing. 2
stemelbow Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 On 4/2/2017 at 0:14 PM, JLHPROF said: Elder Holland indicated that once the gospel had penetrated every continent and clime that the Savior would be able to return. So I ask, not expecting the entire world to be converted, what continents and climes have no gospel access for acceptance or rejection? Which area still needs an opportunity before the Savior can return? China? Iran? Antarctica? With the Internet, where hasn't the gospel reached, recognizing that many won't accept Christ before he returns? Depends to me on what it means to penetrate a continent and clime with the gospel. Does it mean every person on each continent and clime needs to have the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel? if so, we have forever ahead of us. Does it mean someone on each continent and clime (I guess inhabited should be assumed here) has heard of the Church or something? well, we might have reached that, with all the travels we take in our world. So who knows?
Calm Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 21 minutes ago, clarkgoble said: . But the kind of triumpheratism you saw in the 80's and 90's always struck me as unseemly. Understandable though, I think, for two reasons...a sense of relief because it changed a perception of being the unpopular oddball, still proud to be different, but preferring to be seen as accepted as part of society, even if more on the edge than center and a sense of pride in seeing a community one belongs to doing well in both growth and in terms of its mission ('we are accomplishing much! Isn't that great!'). Both are good feelings there is nothing wrong with. The problem imo is when it becomes a matter of inappropriate pride or if it leads to complacency or too much of a preference for the comfortable spot.
clarkgoble Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Calm said: Understandable though, I think, for two reasons...a sense of relief because it changed a perception of being the unpopular oddball, still proud to be different, but preferring to be seen as accepted as part of society, even if more on the edge than center and a sense of pride in seeing a community one belongs to doing well in both growth and in terms of its mission ('we are accomplishing much! Isn't that great!'). Both are good feelings there is nothing wrong with. The problem imo is when it becomes a matter of inappropriate pride or if it leads to complacency or too much of a preference for the comfortable spot. To be fair it also does fulfill prophesy. Related to this thread I remember a talk by Pres. Kimball that talked about the gospel going to every nation. The missionaries back in the film strip days used to show it regularly to members. (I was just a little kid at the time -- not that old!) When in the 80's the church started getting into eastern European countries it again was seen as prophecy and God working in mysterious ways. Although perhaps seen as a little overblown once the USSR fell a few years later. Yet it is interesting that in many ways most of the world hasn't opened up as expected in the 90's. If anything we're going the other direction as eastern Europe is closing up again. As Ouagadougou noted on the first page though, that part of Asia contains a big chunk of the world's population. There's a lot left to do. Edit: I think this was the talk I was thinking of. In those days talking of going into soviet Russian seemed impossible. So when that started happening a lot of people remembered that talk. The talk was from 1974 but was pushed heavily for missionary work in 1984. Edited April 3, 2017 by clarkgoble 1
thesometimesaint Posted April 5, 2017 Posted April 5, 2017 On 4/3/2017 at 1:02 PM, Teancum said: really? Do you recall when we touted being the fastest growing church in the world? Don't you recall the claims that the LDS Church is the stone cut out of the mountains with out hands from Daniel's prophecy that would fill the whole earth? And oh by the way where did I say EVERYONE would accept the "restored gospel?" But it is more than far from everyone,. It is almost nobody. Sorry don't remember us claiming it. I do remember us claiming we are among the faster ones however. SEE https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng The claim is that eventually everyone will hear and be given the opportunity to accept or reject it, In this life or the next. Book of Mormon prophets seeing our day remarked at how few members there were.
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