Atheist Mormon Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Glenn101 said: The Church through its various leaders have always testified that the universe and this words and the life thereon was created by God. That is all we need really to know. It has not been revealed yet just how God did it. The process, that is. Was the universe produced bay a big bang, or quantum fluctuation? Doesn't matter. However it came about, God was the prime mover, according to faith. Glenn So, you are not going to investigate scientific facts, collaborated from hundreds of scientist, universities and credible sources. doesn't matter to you?
Glenn101 Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: So, you are not going to investigate scientific facts, collaborated from hundreds of scientist, universities and credible sources. doesn't matter to you? The big bang theory seems to be the most popular best bet right now. The quantum boys have a lot of theories about fluctuations though. I expect that there will be some good debates in the scientific circles between those two camps coming up. Should be interesting. But it doesn't matter to me how God created the universe. Glenn Edited March 24, 2017 by Glenn101 An additional thought.
MormonVideoGame Posted March 25, 2017 Author Posted March 25, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 5:32 PM, Glenn101 said: The Church through its various leaders have always testified that the universe and this words and the life thereon was created by God. Not all Mormons believe God created the Universe. To many God is a space alien
MormonVideoGame Posted March 25, 2017 Author Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) On 3/23/2017 at 5:10 PM, Glenn101 said: None of my spiritual experiences, except maybe one, gave me any help with the future. But the ones that I have had are so memorable because they are unlike my own thoughts and feelings. Some of my thought have led to personal insights, but nothing like the conviction(s) that have been borne to me via the Holy Ghost. Glenn It is not easy for me to believe because there are similar testimonies everywhere. In another thread Ouagadougou shared a video. Watch the followers of A.J. Miller (Australian Jesus) share their testimony. Perhaps someday I believe again, but I honestly haven't seen any evidence, at least God needs to send me a clear message. Edited March 25, 2017 by MormonVideoGame
Glenn101 Posted March 26, 2017 Posted March 26, 2017 17 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: It is not easy for me to believe because there are similar testimonies everywhere. In another thread Ouagadougou shared a video. Watch the followers of A.J. Miller (Australian Jesus) share their testimony. Perhaps someday I believe again, but I honestly haven't seen any evidence, at least God needs to send me a clear message. I have had a clear message. Once. I see no need to keep asking that same question again. I do not know what the experiences of any others have been. I only know mine and the one was convincing. I have had other spiritual experiences which have been confirmatory, but nothing like that one. I do hope the Lord will send you a message clear enough for you to resolve all of your doubts. Life is tough enough as it is. Glenn 1
MormonVideoGame Posted March 26, 2017 Author Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Glenn101 said: I do hope the Lord will send you a message clear enough for you to resolve all of your doubts. Life is tough enough as it is. Thanks. If there is a benevolent god somewhere, he wouldn't judge my lack of faith because it is not my fault. 6 hours ago, Glenn101 said: I only know mine and the one was convincing. In his book John C wathey says he felt an "overwhelming sensation of a loving, forgiving presence". However, Dr. wathey offers a scientific explanation for his own experience. Like I said, for me it is not easy to believe. Edited March 26, 2017 by MormonVideoGame
Glenn101 Posted March 26, 2017 Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: Thanks. If there is a benevolent god somewhere, he wouldn't judge my lack of faith because it is not my fault. In his book John C wathey says he felt an "overwhelming sensation of a loving, forgiving presence". However, Dr. wathey offers a scientific explanation for his own experience. Like I said, for me it is not easy to believe. Faith is something that has to be worked for. It is also a choice. Dr. Wathey chose not to believe his own experience(s) but rather sought naturalistic explanations. He is satisfied with those explanations. My defining spiritual experience was not a "warm fuzzy." It was a crystal clear communication. The details are personal, but in following that communication my life and faith which I had virtually lost were restored to me. No one is going to convince me that the communication was not from the Holy Ghost. Now, what have you got to lose by seeking to find faith? By losing yourself in living the Gospel? I find living the Gospel an enjoyable experience. In the end, if Wathey is correct, you will not ever know that you were wrong, but you will have a lifetime of enjoyable memories before you take that final step into what you believe will be oblivion. On the other hand, if you have lost yourself in living the Gospel and Dr. Wathey is wrong (and he most certainly is), I hope to see you on the other side and shake your hand. Glenn Edited March 26, 2017 by Glenn101 An additional thought. 2
MormonVideoGame Posted March 26, 2017 Author Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Glenn101 said: Faith is something that has to be worked for. It is also a choice. I strongly disagree. Faith is not a choice. In the past I knelt on my knees with tears many times, I fasted, read my scriptures, gave tithing, but that message never came. I still go to church, but I am running out of patience, I can't try forever. In the New Era Carolyn LeDuc wrote, "Brimming with anticipation, I posed my question: Was the Book of Mormon true? As I waited for a response, a cricket chirped. The air conditioner switched on. My watch intrusively ticked off the seconds as they passed. There was no burning bosom sensation, no chorus of angels, no flash of knowing. Nothing...Three months later, again finishing with Moroni’s testimony, I leapt to the floor, doubly sure I’d done my part, doubly sure an answer would come. But my hopes were disappointed when, as before, my inquiry was met with silence" https://www.lds.org/new-era/2010/02/waiting-for-my-testimony?lang=eng 6 hours ago, Glenn101 said: By losing yourself in living the Gospel? I did that my entire life. What makes you think I didn't? Edited March 26, 2017 by MormonVideoGame
Ahab Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 22 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: I strongly disagree. Faith is not a choice. In the past I knelt on my knees with tears many times, I fasted, read my scriptures, gave tithing, but that message never came. I still go to church, but I am running out of patience, I can't try forever. In the New Era Carolyn LeDuc wrote, "Brimming with anticipation, I posed my question: Was the Book of Mormon true? As I waited for a response, a cricket chirped. The air conditioner switched on. My watch intrusively ticked off the seconds as they passed. There was no burning bosom sensation, no chorus of angels, no flash of knowing. Nothing...Three months later, again finishing with Moroni’s testimony, I leapt to the floor, doubly sure I’d done my part, doubly sure an answer would come. But my hopes were disappointed when, as before, my inquiry was met with silence" https://www.lds.org/new-era/2010/02/waiting-for-my-testimony?lang=eng I did that my entire life. What makes you think I didn't? Maybe instead of asking God if the Book of Mormon is true you should ask yourself if you think the Book of Mormon says anything that is true about God and Jesus Christ and their interactions with ancient inhabitants of America. Everything good is of God. But not everything that is true is good.
pogi Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 23 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: In the New Era Carolyn LeDuc wrote, "Brimming with anticipation, I posed my question: Was the Book of Mormon true? As I waited for a response, a cricket chirped. The air conditioner switched on. My watch intrusively ticked off the seconds as they passed. There was no burning bosom sensation, no chorus of angels, no flash of knowing. Nothing...Three months later, again finishing with Moroni’s testimony, I leapt to the floor, doubly sure I’d done my part, doubly sure an answer would come. But my hopes were disappointed when, as before, my inquiry was met with silence" Wow, talk about missing the point! She also said: “I get it,” I said to the Lord. “I get it. The truth of this book isn’t always manifest in burning bosoms and visions of angels; it’s manifest in the lives of the people who read it and put it to use. I don’t need to ask anymore if this book is true. I experience its truth every day I live its teachings.” This wasn’t the answer I had anticipated when I first set out to put Moroni’s promise to the test. It was far better. The Lord could have given me a single flash of confirming peace. Instead, He had given me a whole year of it. 2
MormonVideoGame Posted March 27, 2017 Author Posted March 27, 2017 32 minutes ago, pogi said: Wow, talk about missing the point! She also said: “I get it,” I said to the Lord. “I get it. The truth of this book isn’t always manifest in burning bosoms and visions of angels; it’s manifest in the lives of the people who read it and put it to use. I don’t need to ask anymore if this book is true. I experience its truth every day I live its teachings.” This wasn’t the answer I had anticipated when I first set out to put Moroni’s promise to the test. It was far better. The Lord could have given me a single flash of confirming peace. Instead, He had given me a whole year of it. and a "better life" is not enough for me. "being nicer" is not enough. I didn't miss the point.
pogi Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said: and a "better life" is not enough for me. "being nicer" is not enough. I didn't miss the point. So you didn't intentionally quote her out of context to appear as if her prayer wasn't answered? I think you did miss the point. The point being that Moroni's promise was answered for her in a way which was "far better" than what she had originally anticipated or expected. This was a very personal experience for her which you diminish and dismiss because it doesn't align with what YOU want or expect from the Lord, but it was just what she needed. Edited March 27, 2017 by pogi 1
MormonVideoGame Posted March 27, 2017 Author Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, pogi said: So you didn't intentionally quote her out of context to appear as if her prayer wasn't answered? I think you did miss the point. The point being that Moroni's promise was answered for her in a way which was "far better" than what she had originally anticipated or expected. This was a very personal experience for her which you diminish and dismiss because it doesn't align with what YOU want or expect from the Lord, but it was just what she needed. She wrote "I sat for some time, reflecting on the year. Truly, it had been a remarkable period of growth and change. I smiled, noting to myself that it was common these days for me to feel happy. I thought about friendships I had formed with wonderful peers who strengthened my faith. I thought about how my family relationships had taken a dramatic turn for the better. I hadn’t fought with my siblings in months, and my parents and I seemed to communicate with amazing ease. What’s more, schoolwork seemed less stressful, odd jobs had been available to provide extra income, and even my physical fitness had improved. But the most significant change had been in my spirit. I now looked forward to attending church, gladly paid tithes, fasted and prayed with much greater faith, and could list many times when the Spirit had prompted me to avoid danger, express kindness, or voice truth. All told, there was little in my life that wasn’t drastically better now than it had been just 12 months earlier. “That’s so cool!” I said out loud, slipping to my knees." I need more than that. Good enough for her, but not for me. Edited March 27, 2017 by MormonVideoGame
pogi Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 38 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said: She wrote "I sat for some time, reflecting on the year. Truly, it had been a remarkable period of growth and change. I smiled, noting to myself that it was common these days for me to feel happy. I thought about friendships I had formed with wonderful peers who strengthened my faith. I thought about how my family relationships had taken a dramatic turn for the better. I hadn’t fought with my siblings in months, and my parents and I seemed to communicate with amazing ease. What’s more, schoolwork seemed less stressful, odd jobs had been available to provide extra income, and even my physical fitness had improved. But the most significant change had been in my spirit. I now looked forward to attending church, gladly paid tithes, fasted and prayed with much greater faith, and could list many times when the Spirit had prompted me to avoid danger, express kindness, or voice truth. All told, there was little in my life that wasn’t drastically better now than it had been just 12 months earlier. “That’s so cool!” I said out loud, slipping to my knees." I need more than that. Good enough for her, but not for me. Once again, you are missing the point. This isn't about you! 1
Ahab Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, pogi said: Once again, you are missing the point. This isn't about you! Well, in relation to him, it is about how well he responds to what he has been given. It is a test of his faith. Or a test to see if he can develop any faith, and if he can, how long he will hold on to it.
MormonVideoGame Posted March 27, 2017 Author Posted March 27, 2017 3 hours ago, pogi said: Once again, you are missing the point. This isn't about you! Carolyn LeDuc had "no burning bosom sensation, no chorus of angels, no flash of knowing. Nothing." Same for me, nothing. I understand that for Carolyn LeDuc better jobs, being nicer, less stress, peace is good enough for her, but not for me.
Ahab Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said: Carolyn LeDuc had "no burning bosom sensation, no chorus of angels, no flash of knowing. Nothing." Same for me, nothing. I understand that for Carolyn LeDuc better jobs, being nicer, less stress, peace is good enough for her, but not for me. Do you even know what faith is? I know I've explained it to you a few times but apparently that meant and still means "nothing" to you.
Glenn101 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 On 3/26/2017 at 3:10 PM, MormonVideoGame said: On 3/26/2017 at 9:19 AM, Glenn101 said: By losing yourself in living the Gospel? I did that my entire life. What makes you think I didn't? I did not know, do not know whether you have or have not. The point I was making is what have you got to lose by continuing? Glenn
MormonVideoGame Posted March 28, 2017 Author Posted March 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Glenn101 said: I did not know, do not know whether you have or have not. The point I was making is what have you got to lose by continuing? more freedom? Ask an LGBT. A gay person really needs a clear message from God in order to remain celibate for the rest of his or her life. Ask the mothers of disable 20 yr old men (including sufferers of paralysis, brittle bones, and cerebral palsy) who hire a ____ for.their sons.
Ahab Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said: more freedom? ... Ask the mothers of disable 20 yr old men (including sufferers of paralysis, brittle bones, and cerebral palsy) who hire a ____ for.their sons. Hire a what? My wife and I have 2 sons with osteogenesimperfecta, aka brittle bones. And they both have a testimony of God. What do you think their Mom (and/or Dad) need to hire for them?
MormonVideoGame Posted March 28, 2017 Author Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Ahab said: Hire a what? My wife and I have 2 sons with osteogenesimperfecta, aka brittle bones. And they both have a testimony of God. I am sorry to hear that. Some mothers, especially in Europe, don't believe (or lack faith) in an afterlife. Edited March 28, 2017 by MormonVideoGame
Ahab Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said: I am sorry to hear that. Some mothers, especially in Europe, don't believe (or lack faith) in an afterlife. Not going to tell me now what you think their Mom should hire for them? Lots of people don't believe in a lot of things. Sad, sometimes, yes, but what is true is true regardless of who does or doesn't believe in it.
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