And the Winner is..."Is the Divide Too Wide"

[Johnnie Cake]

I had an epiphany while watching the Best Picture Oscar being awarded during the Academy Awards last night.  Things aren't always as they appear.  The audience as well as the cast and producers of "La La Land" had every right to believe that they had won the academy award for best picture.  The movie had been nominated, had already won several Oscars,  their names were read over the podium as the winner, they had been handed the coveted Oscar statue and were holding them in their hands and were in the process of delivering their rehearsed "we'd like to thank the academy" speech when defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory before a live world audience estimated to be in the millions of TV viewers. But things weren't as they appeared. In a millisecond, victory turned to defeat...and the gracious losers had to hand their victory Oscars to the true Winners of the Best Picture award, the producers of "Moonlight"  In like manner my participation here isn't as many seem to make of it.

It was a busy day at my office today, which was good, it kept me away from posting on MD&D...but this afternoon, as I took some time to respond to a few of the replies others have made to my posts...something hit me...the divide is just too wide and they don't get me.  I just don't know if there is room for me here. This past week I've been schooled on my tone, had pejoratives thrown in my direction, been called an anti-Mormon on more than one occasion, had my posting motives questioned by several posters and this after I've self edited my posts in an effort to make my comments more amenable to board sensibilities and conform to board rules and protocols. Yet I continue to offend board members despite my many attempts to avoid doing so. It's me not you right?

While I do enjoy the occasional intellectual joust I have no desire to play the game that so many here seem to enjoy...the game of posting wars...where each poster tries to post the most witty and seemingly clever put down of whomever holds a viewpoint opposite their own.   Don't get me wrong, I'm just as guilty as the next poster, in fact I just deleted a return post to one of you (despite me believing it exposed the flaws in the logic of your argument)...but after taking time to write it...I thought what's the point, it will only spawn another salvo of retaliations.  I've either grown tired of it all or lost my appetite for blood.  I often feel misunderstood here but that's ok...I'm not here to win your applause or make friends...but lately I find myself even second guessing the time I've devoted here and my own motives for posting here...I just don't care any longer and no longer wish to play the posting wars game....where many seem more interested to scoring rhetorical points instead of seeking truth...what ever that means.

This isn't a good bye...but I do hope that it represents the high water mark in my online activity here...a mark from which I can now slowly retreat.  It's funny but I've failed miserably in what I've really wanted in my posts here...what I've tried to put into each of my post...despite what many have interpreted...a desire to find understanding of conflicting perspectives and a desire to find common ground to bridge the divide between us.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[Ahab]

Say again?  What divide? Where do you stand and what are you offering to try to bridge any gap you see between us?

For the record I often see gaps in understanding between myself and other members of this board, too, and I am an honest to goodness latter-day saint, for crying out loud!

Maybe it's just part of being human, wherever we stand.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Ahab
I hate typos.

[Rajah Manchou]

3 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

...the divide is just too wide and they don't get me.  I just don't know if there is room for me here. This past week I've been schooled on my tone, had pejoratives thrown in my direction, been called an anti-Mormon on more than one occasion, had my posting motives questioned by several posters and this after I've self edited my posts in an effort to make my comments more amenable to board sensibilities and conform to board rules and protocols. Yet I continue to offend board members despite my many attempts to avoid doing so. It's me not you right?

Of course there's room for you. Without you here we wouldn't have had 3-4 interesting threads this week. I counted real quick and those threads totaled 6000 views with 550 replies.

The divide isn't as wide as you might think. There is a wide range of opinions here. But I think we tend to dump each other into two buckets: Mormon and anti-Mormon. If you lead your thread with anything that resembles "anti" arguments than the responses will reflect that. You could have created an anonymous sock puppet account and posted the exact same content and received the same response. Its not you. 

But one observation based on our brief interaction on the DNA thread. Where there would have been a lot of overlap between my position and yours, I felt forced into defending the mainstream "Mormon bucket" viewpoint. Rather than discussing the origins of Native American DNA the conversation turned towards the inconsistencies in BOM apologetics, and I felt you wanted a response to only that...whether I could defend it or not. Many here usually fall somewhere in between the two buckets. I don't think everybody is offended by your posts, but I think you might prefer to engage with those who might be.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Rajah Manchou

[Rain]

4 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

 

It was a busy day at my office today, which was good, it kept me away from posting on MD&D...but this afternoon, as I took some time to respond to a few of the replies others have made to my posts...something hit me...the divide is just too wide and they don't get me.  I just don't know if there is room for me here. This past week I've been schooled on my tone, had pejoratives thrown in my direction, been called an anti-Mormon on more than one occasion, had my posting motives questioned by several posters and this after I've self edited my posts in an effort to make my comments more amenable to board sensibilities and conform to board rules and protocols. Yet I continue to offend board members despite my many attempts to avoid doing so. It's me not you right?

 

I did not mean to "school" you on your tone. You expressed some frustration about being misunderstood or I never would have said anything. It seemed that you didn't understand how you were coming across to many of us. It was the first time I had seen a softness in you and I wondered how badly I had misjudged you - which is one of the reasons why I also said that we should try to also see the other person's point of view before assuming badly of them. Then I thought that if you were sad that others didn't have good thoughts of you then maybe you would appreciate a suggestion that would help others to listen to you better. 

It's doubtful that everyone on this board will read that thread.  It's also doubtful that it would be enough to change a lot of attitudes quickly, given the history, so the only thing I could help with is to suggest you consider changing your posting tone if it bothered you that people misunderstand you.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Rain

[Johnnie Cake]

It seems that the same vitriol that has over taken the nation has also taken root in this board:   If you're a liberal this picture is offensive in that Conway has her feet on an oval office couch..." Oh the shock of it all...how dare she defile and disrespect the oval office"

 

But if your a conservative...you fire back with this picture...its *** for tat...back and forth everyone trying to one up their perceived opponent... the exact same spirit that has overtaken the nation and its in full swing here on MD&D...

Edited February 28, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[RevTestament]

14 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

I had an epiphany while watching the Best Picture Oscar being awarded during the Academy Awards last night.  Things aren't always as they appear.  The audience as well as the cast and producers of "La La Land" had every right to believe that they had won the academy award for best picture.  The movie had been nominated, had already won several Oscars,  their names were read over the podium as the winner, they had been handed the coveted Oscar statue and were holding them in their hands and were in the process of delivering their rehearsed "we'd like to thank the academy" speech when defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory before a live world audience estimated to be in the millions of TV viewers. But things weren't as they appeared. In a millisecond, victory turned to defeat...and the gracious losers had to hand their victory Oscars to the true Winners of the Best Picture award, the producers of "Moonlight"  In like manner my participation here isn't as many seem to make of it.

It was a busy day at my office today, which was good, it kept me away from posting on MD&D...but this afternoon, as I took some time to respond to a few of the replies others have made to my posts...something hit me...the divide is just too wide and they don't get me.  I just don't know if there is room for me here. This past week I've been schooled on my tone, had pejoratives thrown in my direction, been called an anti-Mormon on more than one occasion, had my posting motives questioned by several posters and this after I've self edited my posts in an effort to make my comments more amenable to board sensibilities and conform to board rules and protocols. Yet I continue to offend board members despite my many attempts to avoid doing so. It's me not you right?

While I do enjoy the occasional intellectual joust I have no desire to play the game that so many here seem to enjoy...the game of posting wars...were each poster tries to post the most witty and seemingly clever put down of whomever holds a viewpoint opposite their own.   Don't get me wrong, I'm just as guilty as the next poster, in fact I just deleted a return post to one of you (despite me believing it exposed the flaws in the logic of your argument)...but after taking time to write it...I thought what's the point, it will only spawn another salvo of retaliations.  I've either grown tired of it all or lost my appetite for blood.  I often feel misunderstood here but that's ok...I'm not here to win your applause or make friends...but lately I find myself even second guessing the time I've devoted here and my own motives for posting here...I just don't care any longer and no longer wish to play the posting wars game....where many seem more interested to scoring rhetorical points instead of seeking truth...what ever that means.

This isn't a good bye...but I do hope that it represents the high water mark in my online activity here...a mark from which I can now slowly retreat.  It's funny but I've failed miserably in what I've really wanted in my posts here...what I've tried to put into each of my post...despite what many have interpreted...a desire to find understanding of conflicting perspectives and a desire to find common ground to bridge the divide between us.

There are others like you who have struggled in their testimony and left the Church. I feel forums like this are an appropriate place to have discussions. Of course your opinions are going to vary. I expect that and acknowledge that. I don't find you to be particularly abrasive, but you do routinely offer the counterpoint. I am rather used to that from other boards so it does not offend me. Rather, I think the Church needs to learn to better address people like yourself, so in this regard I think we can thank you for giving us that opportunity. Hopefully, quite soon the Church will be better able to address those struggling with typical criticisms of the church such as your feeling that the BoM is fiction.

[RevTestament]

6 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

It seems that the same vitriol that has over taken the nation has also taken root in this board:   If you're a liberal this picture is offensive in that Conway has her feet on an oval office couch..." Oh the shock of it all...how dare she defile and disrespect the oval office"

 

But if your a conservative...you fire back with this picture...its *** for tat...back and forth everyone trying to one up their perceived opponent... the exact same spirit that has overtaken the nation and its in full swing here on MD&D...

I could care less whether Sotoro puts his feet on his desk. I care what came out of his mouth. That is what I object to.

[Ahab]

36 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

It seems that the same vitriol that has over taken the nation has also taken root in this board:   If you're a liberal this picture is offensive in that Conway has her feet on an oval office couch..." Oh the shock of it all...how dare she defile and disrespect the oval office"

 

But if your a conservative...you fire back with this picture...its *** for tat...back and forth everyone trying to one up their perceived opponent... the exact same spirit that has overtaken the nation and its in full swing here on MD&D...

Shoes on wood isn't as big a problem as shoes on upholstery, and I don't see her shoes on the floor to show that she took them off.

Plus they would all be in trouble in my house since my wife prefers that people not wear any shoes on carpet.