Johnnie Cake Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) In a recent podcast* Elder Marlin Jensen is quoted saying that he believe's that "Truth will fair well in the market place of ideas". I agree with him. So I ask a couple of questions. Assuming this statement to be true: 01. By what matrix or standard should Mormonism's Truth Claims achieving success or failure in this market place of ideas be measured...in other words how do you define success in this market place of ideas? 02. I'm curious to know if the LDS Church is meeting this standard and if so why you believe it is or adversely if not, why you feel that it isn't. 03. What grade would you give the church's truth claims in finding an audience in this market place of ideas? *I won't post a link to the podcast as I don't know if it is approved to do so by the Mods...but for those curious you can find the podcast at Mormon Discussion Podcast with release date 01/21/2017 at the 18:30 mark. Edited January 23, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
stemelbow Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: In a recent podcast* Elder Marlin Jensen is quoted saying that he believe's that "Truth will fair well in the market place of ideas". I agree with him. So I ask a couple of questions. Assuming this statement to be true: 01. By what matrix or standard should Mormonism's Truth Claims achieving success or failure in this market place of ideas be measured...in other words how do you define success in this market place of ideas? You pose a great question but I'd say it's more about what is true, good and useful, moreso than it is who is right. The Church simply needs to learn to be adaptable when it comes to ideas that make it through the battle of a market place of ideas. How do you measure a whole organizations set of dogma? I'm not sure, though. 14 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: 02. I'm curious to know if the LDS Church is meeting this standard and if so why you believe it is or adversely if not, why you feel that it isn't. If adaptable is needed, the Church definitely needs work to do on this front. 14 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: 03. What grade would you give the church's truth claims in finding an audience in this market place of ideas? a 3. Oh grade? A d minus-y area. 14 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: *I won't post a link to the podcast as I don't know if it is approved to do so by the Mods...but for those curious you can find the podcast at Mormon Discussion Podcast with release date 01/21/2017 at the 18:30 mark.
The Nehor Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 31 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: In a recent podcast* Elder Marlin Jensen is quoted saying that he believe's that "Truth will fair well in the market place of ideas". I agree with him. I disagree with him. As evidence for my point I present: all of human history. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted January 23, 2017 Author Posted January 23, 2017 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: I disagree with him. As evidence for my point I present: all of human history. So are you speaking specifically to LDS Truth claims or Truth in general? Are you saying that Truth has not faired well throughout human history? That truth hasn't won out over untruth in all of human history? I find this a bizarre perspective...that conflicts with reality...but perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying and I want to be certain that I'm understanding your perspective.
The Nehor Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: So are you speaking specifically to LDS Truth claims or Truth in general? Are you saying that Truth has not faired well throughout human history? That truth hasn't won out over untruth in all of human history? I find this a bizarre perspective...that conflicts with reality...but perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying and I want to be certain that I'm understanding your perspective. Truth in general. I am not suggesting it never wins out. I am saying it is not a guaranteed victor or even a likely victor. 3
Sky Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Much of what we are dealing with here are things that can't necessarily be proven or disproven. It's in the realm of faith. Should other religions be judged by the same standard? There are religions out there that are much older than Mormonism that also make questionable foundational truth claims. Yet people still stay in them. I agree to a certain extent that it's not so much if it's literally true that matters, but if it's "good." That seems to be more a more measurable indicator of the worth of any particular religion in the world today. Less than 1% of the world's population is Mormon; and as such, most of the world probably doesn't care that much about Mormonism. Barely on the radar for most of the earth's population, truth be told. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted January 23, 2017 Author Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Fair enough...truth can lose in the short run...but I contend that it will always win in the long run... unless stamped out by civilization. What truths were destroyed when the Library of Alexander was set on fire by religious fanatics? Edited January 23, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
The Nehor Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Johnnie Cake said: Fair enough...truth can lose in the short run...but I contend that it will always win in the long run... unless stamped out by civilization. What truths were destroyed when the Library of Alexander was set on fire by religious fanatics? Do you mean the Library of Alexandria? We don't know. A certain degree of fact will eventually win. For example a civilization that believes total celibacy is the best form of maintaining itself or an investor who believes Beanie Baby collecting is the best way to fund their retirement will eventually slam into reality at some point. Some falsehoods can survive for centuries unchallenged because reality is not mean enough to slap people down over it. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted January 23, 2017 Author Posted January 23, 2017 Just now, The Nehor said: Do you mean the Library of Alexandria? We don't know. Yes...sorry Just now, The Nehor said: A certain degree of fact will eventually win. For example a civilization that believes total celibacy is the best form of maintaining itself or an investor who believes Beanie Baby collecting is the best way to fund their retirement will eventually slam into reality at some point. Some falsehoods can survive for centuries unchallenged because reality is not mean enough to slap people down over it. Thanks
mfbukowski Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 I don't know what any of these words mean so I will pass on commenting. I think everyone should give me a rep point for that decision. If you don't give me a rep point, I will post the Rorty video again. So do it or else 3
Glenn101 Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: In a recent podcast* Elder Marlin Jensen is quoted saying that he believe's that "Truth will fair well in the market place of ideas". I agree with him. So I ask a couple of questions. Assuming this statement to be true: 01. By what matrix or standard should Mormonism's Truth Claims achieving success or failure in this market place of ideas be measured...in other words how do you define success in this market place of ideas? 02. I'm curious to know if the LDS Church is meeting this standard and if so why you believe it is or adversely if not, why you feel that it isn't. 03. What grade would you give the church's truth claims in finding an audience in this market place of ideas? *I won't post a link to the podcast as I don't know if it is approved to do so by the Mods...but for those curious you can find the podcast at Mormon Discussion Podcast with release date 01/21/2017 at the 18:30 mark. Are you talking about LDS truth claims as to their doctrines, to include the First Vision, the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, etc? If so, you will have to wait until the market place of ideas is in Christ's hands. However, is that what Elder Jensen was talking about? I have not listened to the podcast as I am hearing impaired. Glenn
Gray Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 I don't think you can grade truth on a popularity curve. 1
cdowis Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: In a recent podcast* Elder Marlin Jensen is quoted saying that he believe's that "Truth will fair well in the market place of ideas". I agree with him. May I suggest that you do not know what he means by that sentence. If I were to have visited Sodom, as did Lot and the angels, it appears that their ideas, with that group of people and their particular market of ideas, did fare well at all. Need I mention the prophet Abinadai and King Noah It is a hyperbole. Edited January 24, 2017 by cdowis
thesometimesaint Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 On 1/23/2017 at 2:56 PM, Johnnie Cake said: In a recent podcast* Elder Marlin Jensen is quoted saying that he believe's that "Truth will fair well in the market place of ideas". I agree with him. So I ask a couple of questions. Assuming this statement to be true: 01. By what matrix or standard should Mormonism's Truth Claims achieving success or failure in this market place of ideas be measured...in other words how do you define success in this market place of ideas? 02. I'm curious to know if the LDS Church is meeting this standard and if so why you believe it is or adversely if not, why you feel that it isn't. 03. What grade would you give the church's truth claims in finding an audience in this market place of ideas? *I won't post a link to the podcast as I don't know if it is approved to do so by the Mods...but for those curious you can find the podcast at Mormon Discussion Podcast with release date 01/21/2017 at the 18:30 mark. We're dong well in the market place of idea's. All we ask is for a fair chance to get our message out. Could we do better? Yes.
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