Rajah Manchou Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 3 hours ago, mapman said: I don't see any connection between what we know about Walter's beliefs and practices and Mormonism One of the reasons so many historians are fascinated by Walter is because there are many connections between his beliefs/practices and early Mormonism. Laman (as his name was often spelled) had a magic stone, a magic book, and magic parchments that he may have drawn up for the Smiths. He was known to speak frequently of treasure in a hill.
Benjamin Seeker Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 5 hours ago, stemelbow said: Well I'm missing something. I'm not seeing them. Sorry, they probably were only mentioned in passing then. Looks like mapman cleared up things.
mfbukowski Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Gervin said: It's a small point, I suppose, to defend the character of some dead guy. Even smaller to impugn that character because of a lack of credibility in your faith's origin-narrative. A healthier interest in logic might be beneficial. I fail to see what that has to do with logic, even if it were true. Morals, perhaps, but of course I am not buying your premise. You can believe that a crucifxion saved you from your sins but not that Hebrew could be written in hieratic Egyptian? Well I share your first belief, but I must admit the second is much easier to accept than the first. Robert has not been around so now I guess I am the lucky recipient of your attention, hey?
Gervin Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 32 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: I fail to see what that has to do with logic, even if it were true. Morals, perhaps, but of course I am not buying your premise. I thought that perhaps you could make a cogent argument for Charles Anthon being a charlatan. I was wrong. No big deal. 32 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: You can believe that a crucifxion saved you from your sins but not that Hebrew could be written in hieratic Egyptian? Well I share your first belief, but I must admit the second is much easier to accept than the first. Martin Harris would have been wise to come to you for your opinion about his reformed Egyptian - you don't even need to see the Caracters. 32 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Robert has not been around so now I guess I am the lucky recipient of your attention, hey? Sorry to disappoint - my attention span is closed for scheduled maintenance.
hope_for_things Posted December 22, 2016 Author Posted December 22, 2016 On 12/20/2016 at 0:57 PM, Benjamin Seeker said: If you can find it, I'd love to have a reference for this. Here it is. It's from Pomeroy Tucker's Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism p.31 "Two acquaintances of Joseph Smith-William T. Hussey and Axel Vandrover-later claimed that they went to Smith's house to inspect the 'golden book,' offering to 'take upon themselves the risk of the death-penalty denounced.' But Joseph would only permit them to view the plates covered by a 'piece of think canvas.' Not satisfied, Hussey exclaimed, 'Egad! I'll see the cri[t]ter, live or die!' and removed the cover to reveal a 'large tile-brick.' Joseph then reportedly admitted that 'his friends had been sold by a trick of his' and the three men laughed off the incident." 1
mfbukowski Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) On 12/20/2016 at 6:21 PM, Rajah Manchou said: One of the reasons so many historians are fascinated by Walter is because there are many connections between his beliefs/practices and early Mormonism. Laman (as his name was often spelled) had a magic stone, a magic book, and magic parchments that he may have drawn up for the Smiths. He was known to speak frequently of treasure in a hill. Interesting. Both a Laman-ite and a "Luman-ary" but not a light-weight This is getting absolutely spooky. Edited December 22, 2016 by mfbukowski 1
stemelbow Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 On 12/20/2016 at 8:15 PM, Benjamin Seeker said: Sorry, they probably were only mentioned in passing then. Looks like mapman cleared up things. I guess so. It sounds like there's no recorded occurence of direct contact between the two. But it could have happened.
Benjamin Seeker Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 45 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I guess so. It sounds like there's no recorded occurence of direct contact between the two. But it could have happened. So I would need to go review the source to be sure of the reliability of the source, but there is the account where JS is present after an unsuccessful treasure dig on the hill later called Cumorah led by Walter (I think it's implied that JS participated in the dig). The crew are dejected, and I think this isn't their first try. Walter declares that someone will successfully lead find the treasure in the hill and says that JS will be the one.
stemelbow Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 45 minutes ago, Benjamin Seeker said: So I would need to go review the source to be sure of the reliability of the source, but there is the account where JS is present after an unsuccessful treasure dig on the hill later called Cumorah led by Walter (I think it's implied that JS participated in the dig). The crew are dejected, and I think this isn't their first try. Walter declares that someone will successfully lead find the treasure in the hill and says that JS will be the one. That's the type of stuff I mean. What's the source? From what's been said here it sounds like one of those late recorded things coming from a person who heard something from someone who wasn't there.
Rajah Manchou Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 On 12/22/2016 at 11:40 PM, stemelbow said: That's the type of stuff I mean. What's the source? From what's been said here it sounds like one of those late recorded things coming from a person who heard something from someone who wasn't there. Not sure how much of what Brigham Young said is accurate, but he did say he heard at least some of it straight from the fortune teller. "He had put himself in possession of all the learning in the States, —had been to France, Germany, Italy, and through the world, —had been educated for a priest and turned out to be a devil. [...] I never heard a man swear as he did. He could tell that those plates were there, and that they were a treasure whose value to the people could not be told; for that I myself heard him say."
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