Poll Re: November 2015 Policy Changes

[Gray]

14 hours ago, cdowis said:

And tell us the specific reason it was "all wrapped up" in your view of the universe of Momonism  == social media, tax exemption, criticism, BYU football and Stanford.  Obviously it was not revelation, nicht wahr.

Exactly what prompted this change, since you pretend to know the reason.

I wasn't even thinking about the revelation to remove the ban - the ban itself was wrapped up in politics. The curse of Cain/curse of Ham stuff was post hoc rationalization for the politics of slavery. It was an idea invented by American Christian slave-holders to justify their political positions. That doctrine was incorporated into the Pearl of Great price, which then influenced Brigham Young to initiate the priesthood ban. The LDS opposition to and then support of slavery was influenced by politics as well. If there had never been slavery in the US, we never would have had a ban on blacks holding the priesthood.

The gay issue is similar. It's been wrapped up in politics, starting with our involvement in trying to overturn gay marriage in Hawaii, and the subsequent release of the Proclamation on the Family, our involvement in prop 8, and the most recent supreme court decision. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Gray

[Gray]

12 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

A captain of any ship will need to make certain course corrections every time he goes on a trip since issues arise that requires.  So the Church must navigate an ever changing minefield of stuff while keeping focus on keeping the Church the direction it needs to go.  Nobody should confuse minor course corrections to mean some big changes will come. 

As President Uchtdorf could tell you, minor course corrections plus time = major course corrections. 

[HappyJackWagon]

14 hours ago, cdowis said:

 

If you're truly interested in how church doctrines have changed, I recommend you read This is My Doctrine: The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell.

The examples of change are far too numerous to cover in a post. But yes, doctrines about polygamy, racial priesthood/temple ban, Adam God, Blood atonement, and even the nature of Christ have changed in significant ways over time. Seriously, read the book. It's very good.

 

[carbon dioxide]

11 hours ago, Gray said:

As President Uchtdorf could tell you, minor course corrections plus time = major course corrections. 

No as a pilot he would tell you that sometimes one has to fly around bad weather but that does not mean one has to land at a different airport.  A pilot that refuses to make minor course corrections will be forced to fly though dangerous thunderstorms.

[Gray]

11 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

No as a pilot he would tell you that sometimes one has to fly around bad weather but that does not mean one has to land at a different airport.  A pilot that refuses to make minor course corrections will be forced to fly though dangerous thunderstorms.

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2008/04/a-matter-of-a-few-degrees?lang=eng&_r=1

 

Quote

In 1979 a large passenger jet with 257 people on board left New Zealand for a sightseeing flight to Antarctica and back. Unknown to the pilots, however, someone had modified the flight coordinates by a mere two degrees. This error placed the aircraft 28 miles (45 km) to the east of where the pilots assumed they were. As they approached Antarctica, the pilots descended to a lower altitude to give the passengers a better look at the landscape. Although both were experienced pilots, neither had made this particular flight before, and they had no way of knowing that the incorrect coordinates had placed them directly in the path of Mount Erebus, an active volcano that rises from the frozen landscape to a height of more than 12,000 feet (3,700 m).

As the pilots flew onward, the white of the snow and ice covering the volcano blended with the white of the clouds above, making it appear as though they were flying over flat ground. By the time the instruments sounded the warning that the ground was rising fast toward them, it was too late. The airplane crashed into the side of the volcano, killing everyone on board.

It was a terrible tragedy brought on by a minor error—a matter of only a few degrees.1

 

I'm not saying the church's course corrections lead to tragedy. Just saying small changes can have a big impact over time. 

[HappyJackWagon]

FYI- there is a new poll/survey out that people can take on this issue.

https://georgiasouthern.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_cAPm1r6KFgcof41

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

FYI- there is a new poll/survey out that people can take on this issue.

https://georgiasouthern.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_cAPm1r6KFgcof41

Thank you...I participated.

[smac97]

It looks like the Trib also did a poll on this issue:

Quote

{F}resh polling results show that Mormons who back their church’s position far outnumber the detractors.

A survey conducted Oct. 20-27 for The Salt Lake Tribune and the Hinckley Institute of Politics found that 79 percent of “very active” Utah Latter-day Saints either “strongly” or “somewhat” approve of the policy on adults, while 83 percent back the stance on children of gay LDS couples.

That backing slips to 46 percent and 41 percent, respectively, among “somewhat active” Utah Mormons, compared with 38 percent and 51 percent who disapprove of the policy.

Opposition swells among “inactive” Utah Latter-day Saints to 58 percent who are against the policy on gay couples and 82 percent who don’t like the guidelines about the children.

Among all likely Utah voters, the poll, done by Dan Jones & Associates, found 54 percent either “strongly” or “somewhat” favor the LDS policy on gay couples, with 33 percent against it.

The survey found 55 percent of Utah voters back the ban on LDS religious rites for the kids of gay couples and 37 percent oppose it.

Men generally are more supportive of the policy than women and, somewhat surprisingly, Utah voters between ages 18 and 24 back the church’s position by slightly greater margins than many of their older peers.

The overall poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points.

When compared to a similar survey conducted for The Tribune in January, the new figures reveal support for the policy has grown.

The earlier poll showed 50 percent of Utah voters favoring the policy on gay couples with 39 percent against it, while 49 percent backed the stance on children and 43 percent opposed it. Nearly three-quarters of the state’s Mormons supported both parts of the policy.

The Utah results are similar to a preliminary national “Next Mormons” survey, which shows 72 percent of Latter-day Saints in the U.S. either “strongly” or ‘“somewhat” agree with the policy on gay couples.

That devotion drops significantly among U.S. Mormons for the position on children. For instance, among active members, those who “strongly” agree with that part of the policy falls to 38 percent, down from 50 percent for the adult portion.

The overall takeaway, however, is that faithful Latter-day Saints heed their church leaders, no matter where they live.

That may be tough to hear for progressive Mormons who have lamented the policy, said Jana Riess, a senior columnist for Religion News Service, who plans to use the data for a coming book.

It also undercuts the notion that Mormons outside of Utah are less strident in their beliefs.

“[That] feels true, having only lived other places,” said Riess, a Mormon writer who resides in Cincinnati. “It is not being born out by the data.”

Thanks,

-Smac

[Jeanne]

45 minutes ago, smac97 said:

It looks like the Trib also did a poll on this issue:

Thanks,

-Smac

Thank you..used to get the Trib and don't check in on it unless there is a link here.  I am surprised, amazed and saddened.  Surely this is a Utah poll??  In any case, I hope there is never a policy that asks members to jump into the Great Salt Lake with their eyes open...it will hurt and be blinding.

[Scott Lloyd]

10 hours ago, smac97 said:

It looks like the Trib also did a poll on this issue:

Thanks,

-Smac

Couple of surprises here.

For one, among the strongly active Church members, there is actually less support for the portion of the policy that declares same-sex marriage to be apostasy than there is for the portion that delays baptism for children of same-sex couples. I would have thought the opposite would be the case, as the sympathy-for-the-children card is so often played by opponents of the policy. Maybe the active Church members are more apt to understand that the policy really does protect rather than victimize children.

Second, from the Trib article:

10 hours ago, smac97 said:

"... somewhat surprisingly, Utah voters between ages 18 and 24 back the church’s position by slightly greater margins than many of their older peers."

That is encouraging news in the face of the developing narrative that Mormon millennials are straying away from the Church's teachings on social issues.

Bottom line: This is not the beginning of the end for the Church of Jesus Christ. I guess it will be a while before it withers and dies or becomes "just another church."

Edited November 5, 2016 by Scott Lloyd