Elder Holland Declares GoE in Missouri, Noah's Flood Covered the Whole Planet, Pangea separated after Noah's flood, Jaredites first to Populate the New World

[waveslider]

2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

(You are aware, are you not, that this article, from June 30th this year is in the winter for the southern hemisphere) 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11666212

"Snow shortage delays Mt Ruapehu season opening

The warmest year on record has put New Zealand's snow season off to a sluggish start - and today forced operators on Mt Ruapehu to push back ski area openings that were scheduled this weekend.

The delay at Whakapapa and Turoa was the latest of several postponements at skifields around the country following an unusually balmy season lead-up.

But a climate scientist says one big event was all that was needed to kick the slopes into action.

Weather-permitting, the beginner trails on both Ruapehu ski areas would be open in time for the school holidays.

When the Herald visited Whakapapa today, there was a conspicuous absence of snow around the lower mountain as staff were busy making final preparations for the annual visitor influx."

http://phys.org/news/2015-12-slalom-areas-future.html

"Slalom course for ski areas facing future without snow
December 12, 2015 by Benoit Pavan

As temperatures rise there is less of it or sometimes even none at all—global warming is forcing ski areas to think about the once unthinkable, a future without snow.

Some in the French Alps have gone beyond thinking and begun diversifying the activities they offer visitors, particularly those at around 1,300 metres (4,300 feet) altitude.

It's this level—where ski lifts sprouted like mushrooms in the 1960s and 1970s in what "democratised" winter sports in France—that scientists say will face "highly variable annual " fluctuations in snowfall.
According to the regional authority measuring the impact of climate change, the Alps have seen a 30 percent drop in the amount of snowfall in the past 30 years and the average temperature has climbed 1.6 degrees Celsius (nearly 3 degrees Fahrenheit) since 1960."

I live and ski in Europe. Book a vacation to the Austrian Alps and see for yourself. Some ski slopes are lining their hills with artificial turf. If there is snow, it works as a good base. But when the snows don't come (as happens much more commonly), tourists (especially those with small children, who don't want to tackle the tough upper levels pists) can still ski. 

Ski hill managers would not spend money on artificial turf if they didn't have to!

You are aware that this past year was an El Nino year aren't you? Of course the snow levels would be smaller. Have you checked out New Zealand's North island freeze, in August, They are currently pretty much snowed in, for most of the island, in one of the most amounts of snow fall they have ever had, in low altitudes. The same thing happened in the Alps, again at very low altitudes, not the normal high altitudes you have referenced here, in the middle of July! Record breaking snowfall, enough to open the ski season in July!  Wake up and realize that they are lying to us in order to blame us for causing a fake phenomenon, in order to tax us, not only on our power sources, but on the actual air we breath.

Take a look and see the reality before your very eyes, right now: https://youtu.be/spD06vyL0U0

And last July: https://youtu.be/I_-OxwNEFj4

https://youtu.be/hB8X9S2aG04

Good science doesn't alter data to fit a failing theory: https://youtu.be/WP0hfrWGYMQ

 

 

 

[waveslider]

1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said:

I live in California where a lot of food is grown. We're in our 5th year of drought and extreme heat.

Arctic ice comes in two forms Sea Ice and Land Ice. Sea Ice is like ice in a glass it has little effect on the level of the water in the glass because of displacement. The limited effect the melt water has is in thermal expansion. Land ice is different( IE; Greenland), it is like adding more water to the glass.

Greenland melt

SEE http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/06/ice-melting-greenland-jet-stream-weather-climate-change/

Make sure you acclimate to very high altitudes before you put on those skies.

SEE http://www.snowplaza.co.uk/blog/4888-summer-skiing-holidays-in-the-alps/

Cold in winter. What is this world coming to. Average temperature in New Zealand is rising.

SEE https://www.nzclimatechangecentre.org/sites/nzclimatechangecentre.org/files/images/research/NZCCC Summary_IPCC AR5 NZ Findings_April 2014 WEB.pdf

California is a very small portion compared to the whole world, I thought it was called global warming, not just pockets of warming amidst, colder spots that aren't being reported on properly. And sea ice as well as land ice are thick enough to not have to worry about it melting anytime soon.

[waveslider]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

The thing is, for those children who are baptized and LDS now, they will already have the premise that the Book of Mormon is true.  There is no questioning or anything to be skeptical about until they are older...and maybe not even then.  We have been told to study it out in our minds and yet the thinking has already been done. It just doesn't work for those who have decided the church is true.  Sometimes investigating brings all those circular thoughts around and around and then it HAS to be true.

I was baptized at 8 years old, but I didn't receive my testimony until I was just turning 19. At the time I had read so much anti Mormon literature that I couldn't possibly see how the Book of Mormon could be true, yet with the challenge to read it and pray about it, I found that it is true, in spite of my thinking.

[Teancum]

11 hours ago, waveslider said:

Go ahead a laugh it off as nonsense, but don't complain to me when your food prices soar because of all the frost bitten and flooded out crops this year, all over the world. Besides isn't the arctic ice supposed to be melting? It sure does seem like it is riding around the mid range of record high levels of ice and the record low levels. Not to mention all the great skiing in the Alps this summer, as well as in New Zealand right now. Check it out, instead of just listening to all the sold out media sources. The only nonsense is global warming itself.

well for what it is worth I live in the Northeast of the USA.  Our average days over 90 are 12 per year.  We are at 25 now.  Drought conditions.   Farmers crops not doing well at all.  Last winter was the mildest I have ever seen.  However the two prior had record cold and snow.  So who knows?

[thesometimesaint]

20 minutes ago, waveslider said:

California is a very small portion compared to the whole world, I thought it was called global warming, not just pockets of warming amidst, colder spots that aren't being reported on properly. And sea ice as well as land ice are thick enough to not have to worry about it melting anytime soon.

Yet we provide a large proportion of the food the world eats.

SEE http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=9668

On average the world is getting warmer.

SEE http://www.businessinsider.com/climate-change-before-and-after-pictures-of-earth-2014-2/#rocky-mountain-national-park-before-healthy-pine-trees-stretch-for-tens-of-millions-of-acres-in-the-northwestern-united-states-and-western-canada-1

You do know what an average is don't you?

SEE

 

Tell that to the people who live in the arctic, in the island of the Atlantic, Pacific oceans, and those billions of people in Asia that depend on glacial melt to live.

[waveslider]

59 minutes ago, Teancum said:

well for what it is worth I live in the Northeast of the USA.  Our average days over 90 are 12 per year.  We are at 25 now.  Drought conditions.   Farmers crops not doing well at all.  Last winter was the mildest I have ever seen.  However the two prior had record cold and snow.  So who knows?

That is to be expected in the El Nino year we just had. Now time for you to make sure your Winter gear is in place because the La Nina that we are already falling into is going to be just as opposite to last year as you can ever see.

[thesometimesaint]

4 minutes ago, waveslider said:

That is to be expected in the El Nino year we just had. Now time for you to make sure your Winter gear is in place because the La Nina that we are already falling into is going to be just as opposite to last year as you can ever see.

El Nino and La Nina years are accounted for in Global Warming.

SEE http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=67

[cinepro]

As originator of this thread, may I please ask you not to discuss climate change?  It's not particularly relevant, and no one is going to change their minds.

 

Thanks.

[waveslider]

1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said:

Yet we provide a large proportion of the food the world eats.

SEE http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=9668

On average the world is getting warmer.

SEE http://www.businessinsider.com/climate-change-before-and-after-pictures-of-earth-2014-2/#rocky-mountain-national-park-before-healthy-pine-trees-stretch-for-tens-of-millions-of-acres-in-the-northwestern-united-states-and-western-canada-1

You do know what an average is don't you?

SEE

 

Tell that to the people who live in the arctic, in the island of the Atlantic, Pacific oceans, and those billions of people in Asia that depend on glacial melt to live.

How about looking at the data now instead of all the old links you have posted. Try looking at what is happening today, and you will see that we humans aren't causing global warming. Try looking at the Sun and how it has behaved in the past to see correlations between it and our global temperatures, and climate: http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/

I am not denying that we are polluting our planet and it is causing problems. I am denying that it is causing the climate change we are receiving, and that global warming isn't true, in the over all picture of global temperatures. Sure there are fluctuations, and if you cherry pick a small portion of it, it can actually look like global warming is true, but on the same token, you can cherry pick other parts of the fluctuations to make it look opposite. Taken over all the years, including ice core data on global temperatures, the trend to cold outweighs any recent trend in warmth. Bad science, funded by those who control most of the wealth and power, doesn't make for good science even if they get the sold out scientists to bend the p-curves to fit the narratives, so that those scientists can keep receiving paychecks and accolades..... until the truth comes out, which it will as we will see, while the Sun does a pretty good hat trick of the Maunder minimum, which drove the last mini ice age. If you play your cards right you could even get a lot of good fortune in the commodities market, in stocks if you can see what is going to happen as opposed to the narrative we are being spoon fed.

[thesometimesaint]

2 minutes ago, cinepro said:

As originator of this thread, may I please ask you not to discuss climate change?  It's not particularly relevant, and no one is going to change their minds.

Thanks.

Works for me. However if you are going to propose certain religious claims as scientific facts on the empirical world you need to offer more than just more religious claims. IE; Proof Texting

[cinepro]

11 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Works for me. However if you are going to propose certain religious claims as scientific facts on the empirical world you need to offer more than just more religious claims. IE; Proof Texting

That's not what "proof-texting" is.  The quotes are neither isolated nor out-of-context. 

[waveslider]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

As originator of this thread, may I please ask you not to discuss climate change?  It's not particularly relevant, and no one is going to change their minds.

 

Thanks.

Sorry, I won't talk about that failed science theory anymore.

[thesometimesaint]

24 minutes ago, waveslider said:

How about looking at the data now instead of all the old links you have posted. Try looking at what is happening today, and you will see that we humans aren't causing global warming. Try looking at the Sun and how it has behaved in the past to see correlations between it and our global temperatures, and climate: http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/

I am not denying that we are polluting our planet and it is causing problems. I am denying that it is causing the climate change we are receiving, and that global warming isn't true, in the over all picture of global temperatures. Sure there are fluctuations, and if you cherry pick a small portion of it, it can actually look like global warming is true, but on the same token, you can cherry pick other parts of the fluctuations to make it look opposite. Taken over all the years, including ice core data on global temperatures, the trend to cold outweighs any recent trend in warmth. Bad science, funded by those who control most of the wealth and power, doesn't make for good science even if they get the sold out scientists to bend the p-curves to fit the narratives, so that those scientists can keep receiving paychecks and accolades..... until the truth comes out, which it will as we will see, while the Sun does a pretty good hat trick of the Maunder minimum, which drove the last mini ice age. If you play your cards right you could even get a lot of good fortune in the commodities market, in stocks if you can see what is going to happen as opposed to the narrative we are being spoon fed.

Without recognizing the past the present is nonexistent.

Oh; you're one of those massive conspiracy theorists that claim evil scientists want to control the world.    

Like those at Exxon  SEE https://insideclimatenews.org/news/15092015/Exxons-own-research-confirmed-fossil-fuels-role-in-global-warming

Do you even know what the Maunder Minimum was?

SEE http://www.solarstorms.org/SunLikeStars.html

There probably was no world wide mini ice age.

SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

SEE

robably

 

[waveslider]

8 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Without recognizing the past the present is nonexistent.

Oh; you're one of those massive conspiracy theorists that claim evil scientists want to control the world.    

Like those at Exxon  SEE https://insideclimatenews.org/news/15092015/Exxons-own-research-confirmed-fossil-fuels-role-in-global-warming

Do you even know what the Maunder Minimum was?

SEE http://www.solarstorms.org/SunLikeStars.html

There probably was no world wide mini ice age.

SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

SEE

robably

 

I am going to respect what Cinepro said, and not try to convince someone who is blinded by propaganda into not even checking for himself, the data that exists to all users of the internet. It won't matter anyway if you believe or not, when the test of time shows the real truth anyway. Go ahead and keep posting your propaganda if you want to shut down this thread but I don't wish to be a part of it. So from here on out you can shout as loud as you want, and I won't even reply back. I have found through experience that he who shouts the loudest usually is the one who has the least amount of trust in his own point of view anyway.

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

As originator of this thread, may I please ask you not to discuss climate change?  It's not particularly relevant, and no one is going to change their minds.

 

Thanks.

 

[bcuzbcuz]

4 hours ago, waveslider said:

You are aware that this past year was an El Nino year aren't you? Of course the snow levels would be smaller. Have you checked out New Zealand's North island freeze, in August, They are currently pretty much snowed in, for most of the island, in one of the most amounts of snow fall they have ever had, in low altitudes. The same thing happened in the Alps, again at very low altitudes, not the normal high altitudes you have referenced here, in the middle of July! Record breaking snowfall, enough to open the ski season in July!  Wake up and realize that they are lying to us in order to blame us for causing a fake phenomenon, in order to tax us, not only on our power sources, but on the actual air we breath.

Take a look and see the reality before your very eyes, right now: https://youtu.be/spD06vyL0U0

And last July: https://youtu.be/I_-OxwNEFj4

https://youtu.be/hB8X9S2aG04

Good science doesn't alter data to fit a failing theory: https://youtu.be/WP0hfrWGYMQ

 

 

 

I got my reference material from local newspapers. You got your information from youtube

[waveslider]

20 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I got my reference material from local newspapers. You got your information from youtube

Again:

1 hour ago, waveslider said:

I am going to respect what Cinepro said, and not try to convince someone who is blinded by propaganda into not even checking for himself, the data that exists to all users of the internet. It won't matter anyway if you believe or not, when the test of time shows the real truth anyway. Go ahead and keep posting your propaganda if you want to shut down this thread but I don't wish to be a part of it. So from here on out you can shout as loud as you want, and I won't even reply back. I have found through experience that he who shouts the loudest usually is the one who has the least amount of trust in his own point of view anyway.

 

[bcuzbcuz]

59 minutes ago, waveslider said:

Again:

 

Ok, you win. Anyone who repeats themself, word for word, without adding anything new to the discussion, either has nothing to say or

[Jeanne]

9 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Why? I'm a long time convert from 20 years old. I had to find out for myself if it was true. Which is what the Church is constantly telling us to do. "Man can not endure on Borrowed light".

SEE https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/06/man-cannot-endure-on-borrowed-light?lang=eng

I am glad you had this experience and that you got to make a decision as an adult. You right though..can't endure on borrowed light.

[thesometimesaint]

On 8/17/2016 at 5:50 PM, Teancum said:

Yet we have an apostle and a prophet of the LDS church who taught that if the Genesis account of the creation and fall are not literally true then there is not need for a Christ and a Savior.  Yet I see you and others now saying these are not critical issues.  Well they were to Elder McConkie and his father in law President Smith.  Given their positions in the LDS Church as prophets, seers and revelators why should I trust you more than them?

also based on what I read in your link i recommend the book by Bart Ehrman called How Jesus Became God.  It is not as simple as your blogger might lead his readers to think. 

Neither Elder McConkie or his father-in-law President Smith establish church doctrine.

SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

[Gray]

Just now, thesometimesaint said:

Neither Elder McConkie or his father-in-law President Smith establish church doctrine.

SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

There are many different theories of "official doctrine." None of them are totally workable. 

[thesometimesaint]

On 8/18/2016 at 6:43 AM, Johnnie Cake said:

Yes even the Cockatrice is doctrine ...false doctrine but still doctrine

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

[thesometimesaint]

4 minutes ago, Gray said:

There are many different theories of "official doctrine." None of them are totally workable. 

All of them work within the context in which they are used. Approaching Mormon Doctrine works within the context I used.

We have an official canon we use for doctrine, and we allow for changes in that canon. Commentary on canon by whatever source doesn't change canon, only the Church as a whole can.

[Teancum]

10 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Neither Elder McConkie or his father-in-law President Smith establish church doctrine.

SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

Neither do you.  I know the play here and the get out of jail free card.  I used it all the time.   Yet here we have an apostle and prophet that were very strong and loud.   Mormon Doctrine was like a standard work in many members homes.  And this for a book that President McKay did not want McConkie to publish.  So why didn't he repudiate it?   Well he didn't want to make McConkie look bad.  

McConkie and President Smith both argues strenuously from the scriptures why evolution was false and why a literal fall with NO DEATH before the fall was necessary and why without it their was no need for a savior.  Again they were sustained as prophets seers and revelators.  You were not.  That is why the questions about the origin of life and humans, the age of the earth and a world wide flood  really are critical even though many wish they were not because the answers may be problematic.

[thesometimesaint]

5 hours ago, Teancum said:

Neither do you.  I know the play here and the get out of jail free card.  I used it all the time.   Yet here we have an apostle and prophet that were very strong and loud.   Mormon Doctrine was like a standard work in many members homes.  And this for a book that President McKay did not want McConkie to publish.  So why didn't he repudiate it?   Well he didn't want to make McConkie look bad.  

McConkie and President Smith both argues strenuously from the scriptures why evolution was false and why a literal fall with NO DEATH before the fall was necessary and why without it their was no need for a savior.  Again they were sustained as prophets seers and revelators.  You were not.  That is why the questions about the origin of life and humans, the age of the earth and a world wide flood  really are critical even though many wish they were not because the answers may be problematic.

Brother McConkie is solely responsible for the contents of his book. I'm not here to defend or repudiate Brother McConkie. He had some good idea's and some not so good ones.
Like all of us do. Take what is good and discard the rest.

[Teancum]

10 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Brother McConkie is solely responsible for the contents of his book. I'm not here to defend or repudiate Brother McConkie. He had some good idea's and some not so good ones.
Like all of us do. Take what is good and discard the rest.

So what use are prophets,seers and revelators if they simply have some good ideas and some not so good like all of us do?  And this especially when it seems so easy to toss under the bus things we don't like, like so much of of what defenders do for things they don't like.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Teancum