sam Posted August 5, 2016 Posted August 5, 2016 The Nez pierce tribe is the best Tribe that links Book of Mormon the Bible and DNA evidence together. See link https://mormonbandwagon.com/dave/x2aj/
sam Posted August 5, 2016 Author Posted August 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Calm said: Are you intending to discussor only post the link? I would not mind discussing the link.
Calm Posted August 5, 2016 Posted August 5, 2016 That isn't really how it works. You don't make people do homework to discuss something you want to discuss. You are the one to start the conversation by saying something of substance.
sam Posted August 5, 2016 Author Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) I like the idea that the bible and the Book of Mormon and DNA distrobution explain why the Nez pierce tribe have Assyrian have what looks to be Assyrian connections. Edited August 5, 2016 by sam Grammer
Thinking Posted August 5, 2016 Posted August 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, sam said: I would not mind discussing the link. You don't start a thread with a link. That's against board rules. Trust me. Been there. Done that. Repented. 1
sam Posted August 5, 2016 Author Posted August 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Thinking said: You don't start a thread with a link. That's against board rules. Trust me. Been there. Done that. Repented. Oops my bad
sam Posted August 5, 2016 Author Posted August 5, 2016 What do you guys think of the Assyrian cultural links.
Rajah Manchou Posted August 7, 2016 Posted August 7, 2016 On 8/5/2016 at 11:20 AM, sam said: What do you guys think of the Assyrian cultural links. Interesting, but impossible to think much about it without some more info. I was skeptical when I first read the claim that Chief Joseph has a cuneiform tablet. But the story does seem to check out. First reference I could find of it was in the February 1979 issue of Smithsonian. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2BYkIpRvuaQZU1ZMDFLNTgzZUU/edit Unfortunately we'll never know if Chief Joseph really owned the tablet or whether someone down the line made the story up. Sounds like there were a lot of these floating around about the time the tablet was donated to West Point. One thing to keep in mind though is that the dating of the inscription is 1300 years before the Assyrian captivity, so its not really an Assyrian-Manasseh cultural link. And not sure why Jaredites or Lehites would bother carrying a 4000 years old sales receipt to the New World. But the tablet combined with the Star of Ashur medicine pouch does make the story somewhat more interesting. I'm skeptical, but open to surprises. Thanks for sharing. 1
sam Posted August 8, 2016 Author Posted August 8, 2016 The other thing that you did not mention is the dna link. For Native American Haplo group x the closest genetic link outside America is Iran not Asia. The North western part of Iran was part of the Assyrian Empire. As far as dating the tablet before the Assyrian Empire assuming the dating is correct. I would think there would be only one other explanation. The Jaredites were probably from Mesopotamia. The Jaredites sailed in round boats. Mesopotamia culture used round boats this practice continued in the same area till 1990 when modern boats took over. Maybe the Nez Pierce tribe have a link to the Jaredites also.
Rajah Manchou Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) On 8/8/2016 at 9:59 AM, sam said: The other thing that you did not mention is the dna link. For Native American Haplo group x the closest genetic link outside America is Iran not Asia. The North western part of Iran was part of the Assyrian Empire. As far as dating the tablet before the Assyrian Empire assuming the dating is correct. I would think there would be only one other explanation. The Jaredites were probably from Mesopotamia. The Jaredites sailed in round boats. Mesopotamia culture used round boats this practice continued in the same area till 1990 when modern boats took over. Maybe the Nez Pierce tribe have a link to the Jaredites also. I agree that the presence of X2 is America and Iran is interesting, but as you know there are also a lot of problems once you try to tie that haplogroup to migrations that happened between 3000 BC and 600 BC. The timing is way off. I'm also interested in B2/B4 as it demonstrates a genetic relationship between Polynesians/Austronesians and Native Americans. If Mormon folklore is correct and Polynesians are a remnant of the Lehites than B4 is the strongest evidence of that. The link you provided above does mention the latest research on Australasian and Polynesian DNA in America. Although it is only speculation at this point, this haplogroup is the most likely to have arrived by boat across the Pacific. In my opinion, haplogroup B is most likely to be connected to the Book of Mormon groups. This is as close to a link as we have:"Because the migration to the Americas by the ancestors of Indigenous Americans is generally believed to have been from northeastern Siberia via Beringia, it is surprising that Haplogroup B and Haplogroup X have not been found in Paleo-Siberian tribes of northeastern Siberia. However, Haplogroup B has been found among Turkic, Mongolic, and Tungusic populations of Siberia...this haplogroup is also found among populations in China, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Korea, Laos, Madagascar, Malaysia, Melanesia, Micronesia, Mongolia, the Philippines, Polynesia, Taiwan, Thailand, Tibet, and Vietnam. Although haplogroup B in general has been found in many samples of Altaic-speaking populations of Siberia, the subclade that is phylogenetically closest to American B2, namely B4b1, has been found mainly in populations of southern China and Southeast Asia, especially Filipinos and Austronesian speakers of eastern Indonesia (approx. 8%) and the aborigines of Taiwan and Hainan (approx. 7%)." You'll notice that Haplogroup B has been found in Iran and Iraq. B4 in particular was found in low levels among the Marsh Arabs of Iraq, and surprisingly B4c2 is found at the same level as X2. You can see the B4C2 and X2 under the "Genetic Evidence" section here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_Arabs The levels of B are low (1.4%) in Iran/Iraq but its the only genetic link that I can find between the Middle East and the New World that could be dated to a Book of Mormon timeframe. Note that the path is through the Austronesian/Polynesian Islanders so there would have been admixture of B that could have diluted anything Middle Eastern (R, X, J1, T1 etc.) by the time it arrives in the Americas. The traces of this process possibly visible in Madagascar with J1 and T1 within the Antaimoro. Of course, this hypothesis only works if the Jaredites and Lehites were in Asia before their remnant migrated to the New World. I think it is possible, as you can see here. Edited August 10, 2016 by Rajah Manchou
RevTestament Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 6 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said: Of course, this hypothesis only works if the Jaredites and Lehites were in Asia before their remnant migrated to the New World. I think it is possible, as you can see here. Rajah - are you producing these videos yourself? R U backed by the Strangites?
Rajah Manchou Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 24 minutes ago, RevTestament said: Rajah - are you producing these videos yourself? R U backed by the Strangites? Just me, no backing as you can gauge by the amount of interest in the topic It's a personal interest that has grown out of trying to keep faith in a historical Book of Mormon after researching the Meso models. I'm Mormon by birth but never met a Strangite.
RevTestament Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Ok - just the Rajah Manchou title seems to suggest you have a connection to the Strangites - no offense intended. What are you using to create these videos? While I'm not a believer in the Malay model, like you I am very underwhelmed by the Mesoamerican models. It has always felt like a giant red herring to me - not that I don't believe the Maya, etc have Lamanite connections, but that is a different question in my view.
Rajah Manchou Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, RevTestament said: Ok - just the Rajah Manchou title seems to suggest you have a connection to the Strangites - no offense intended. What are you using to create these videos? While I'm not a believer in the Malay model, like you I am very underwhelmed by the Mesoamerican models. It has always felt like a giant red herring to me - not that I don't believe the Maya, etc have Lamanite connections, but that is a different question in my view. No offense taken. I picked the name thinking I could change it later...oops! I think the masses are burned out on geography. Looks like my interest in it came a few years too late as the conversations have gone from a flood a few years back to a trickle. Seems the big conversation now is not where the Book of Mormon took place but rather if it took place at all. Edited August 10, 2016 by Rajah Manchou
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