Breaking priesthood Covenant?

[jkwilliams]

2 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

While appearing to be somewhat different, both types of lapses are caused by a loss of faith; so when it comes to how they'll be judged, it's probably six of one and a half dozen of the other. In both imstances, a minimization of the importance of maintaining a relationship with God lies at the root of the change in attitude.

That's assuming, of course, that leaving the LDS church is the same as abandoning your relationship with God. Is it possible that some people might leave because their relationship with God is more important than membership in an organization? Seems a tad presumptuous to say that those outside the church do not have a relationship with God or at least do not think it's important to have such a relationship. 

[Bobbieaware]

19 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Must they have knowledge of light and truth beforehand?  If so, does that imply esoteric light and knowledge?

 

After some rumination, here is my rather bombastic answer: When an individual passes from the realm of faith in God, as commonly experienced by most of believing humanity, and into the rarefied realm of a sure knowledge of God, as experienced by the brother of Jared, this most extraordinary of confirmatory spiritual experiences automatically places that individual into the most elite of esoteric groups, even if his or her understanding of Gospel doctrine and principles is rather rudimentary.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

That's assuming, of course, that leaving the LDS church is the same as abandoning your relationship with God. Is it possible that some people might leave because their relationship with God is more important than membership in an organization? Seems a tad presumptuous to say that those outside the church do not have a relationship with God or at least do not think it's important to have such a relationship. 

Pope Francis seems to have a relationship with God.  The proof is in the pudding.

[Vanguard]

9 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

.... and I never meant to suggest that anyone other than God is our ultimate judge. I was merely setting forth some of revealed principles of the Restored Gospel that pertain to God"s perfectly just and merciful plan of salvation. 

As to your question: while it's true we are all born with differing degrees of talent and natural ability, it's equally true that each son and daughter of God is free -- through the atonement -- to draw deeply from the wellspring of God's infinite and eternal power of divine capacitation any time he or she wishes to do so. Therefore, the atoning sacrifice of the Christ is the great equalizer that makes everything perfectly just and fair so that there is no justification for griping and complaints. But in spite of this radical and immutable freedom to grow spiritually any time we desire to do so, the great "wild card" in all of this is what role pre-mortal worthiness plays as to where and when spiritual opportunities are afforded to each individual dwelling in mortality? 

I don't understand why you cast that last sentence in question form? What does pre-mortal worthiness have to do with anything we're speaking of? We also may disagree on this notion of everyone "drawing deeply from the well-spring of God's infinite and eternal power". Of course, you and I both have images of what drawing deeply would look like, (i.e., long and frequent praying, meditative state during the sacrament, heavy studying of the scriptures, etc), right? It always returns to a snapshot of what we believe the marquee behaviors to be - as if the absence of these behaviors is evidence of not applying oneself. While this may ultimately be true for some, we are unable to make that conclusion about specifically who it applies to. And that is my point. What you might think of "drawing deeply" might really have nothing to do with anyone else but yourself and therefore is rendered immaterial to what it would look like for others. My belief is that for many, prayers do not come easily despite intense effort, the sacrament is anything but meditative, finding meaningfulness in the scriptures is a herculean task, and so on. I would not suggest, however, these folks are therefore not trying to draw deeply as it were. It simply might be a reflection of their more limited capacity. And conversely, those who do enjoy the fruits of these marquee behaviors are not necessarily living according to their own capacities but may indeed be falling quite short of their mark. Since when does behavior justify anyone?   

[sdc999]

On 5/12/2016 at 8:10 PM, Sky said:

I know people in this situation, too.  And generally, I think we need to be really cautious about putting anyone in the irredeemable category.  We simply don't know what their final fate will be.  Ultimately, only God can judge.  People can be re-baptized and have their priesthood and temple blessings restored if they are willing to go through all the steps.  It can even be done post-humously if approved by the First Presidency, so there is hope...       

hahahaha.    So you look at those who have left and think of them as redeemable.  So, they are a little less than you?    Yes, I left the lds church and yes, I went to the temple and yes, I am a Christian and Jesus is my Savior.  I think of those who are lds and believe in Christ as Christians as well.  No better, no less.  I guess I need to work harder and get back on your level of Christianity.  Can you send me your picture?  I want to put it up on the wall as inspiration of what I can hope to become one day.

[Sleeper Cell]

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 8:33 PM, sdc999 said:

hahahaha.    So you look at those who have left and think of them as redeemable.  So, they are a little less than you?    Yes, I left the lds church and yes, I went to the temple and yes, I am a Christian and Jesus is my Savior.  I think of those who are lds and believe in Christ as Christians as well.  No better, no less.  I guess I need to work harder and get back on your level of Christianity.  Can you send me your picture?  I want to put it up on the wall as inspiration of what I can hope to become one day.

For starters, you might hope to become a person who is a tad slower to take offense -- especially when no offense is intended. 

BTW, did you miss the part where Sky said:  “ultimately, only God can judge?”

[VideoGameJunkie]

On Game of Thrones they'll chop off your head if you betray an oath so that should stand for something for how important oaths and Covenants are if they're before God, angels, and witnesses.

[UtahTexan]

I broke my covenant.  in 1989...I left....turned my back......

Since returning last year, I have repented over and over.....I do not deserve mercy....but I pray for it.

[sdc999]

On 5/14/2016 at 6:52 PM, Sleeper Cell said:

For starters, you might hope to become a person who is a tad slower to take offense -- especially when no offense is intended. 

BTW, did you miss the part where Sky said:  “ultimately, only God can judge?”

Yes, I did read that part.  And I read it to mean that Sky's comments were, 'don't judge them as irredeemable, because God may see differently.'  Or in other words, if you leave mormonism (or how sky worships), then you are less or fallen but God may say that you are redeemed in the end.  

And that is why I believe that a believer in Christ, whether Mormon, Methodist, Baptist, etc, are all equal Christians.  But by the mere definition of breaking the priesthood, one who continues to believe in the mormon priesthood would have to think of that person as less. Now, one who breaks the covenant and still remains in the lds faith, that would be true but one who has stopped believing that it is the one true church, it doesn't apply so much but only if they remain a believer in Christ. 

Some definitely did not go in this direction as they have become atheist.  Was never in the cards for me to quit believing in God.