Jeanne Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Ahab said: Anarchist? No. Just that I get to pick and choose which laws, and whose laws, to obey. How about you? Do you obey every law you've ever heard about just because some people call it a "law"? We all pick and choose, I think. I call that FREEDOM! So how do you get around that when honoring and sustaining the law is in an article of faith..relatively a church law.
ttribe Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jeanne said: So how do you get around that when honoring and sustaining the law is in an article of faith..relatively a church law. Simple - any law he doesn't want to obey gets labelled as "bad" and POOF it must be true that God agrees with him! 1
Ahab Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 22 minutes ago, ttribe said: So, unless God sets up an organized way of establishing an Earthly government, then we are all left to our own interpretations of "good", "bad" and what we believe God is telling us. IOW - anarchy. Pragmatism really isn't your thing, is it? All we really need is revelation from God, personally, to each one of us who wants it. The "government" of God is just an extension of those who recieve communication from him and agree to do what he wants us to do, so to say we need that government is kinda like putting the cart before the horses. It works.
ttribe Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ahab said: All we really need is revelation from God, personally, to each one of us who wants it. The "government" of God is just an extension of those who recieve communication from him and agree to do what he wants us to do, so to say we need that government is kinda like putting the cart before the horses. It works. Right. The Taliban think they have that whole type of government figured out. So, are you of one mind with them? I mean, they believe God is speaking to them. And, you believe God speaks to you. So, no problem, right?
Ahab Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, ttribe said: Right. The Taliban think they have that whole type of government figured out. So, are you of one mind with them? I mean, they believe God is speaking to them. And, you believe God speaks to you. So, no problem, right? No, there are several problems with your idea. And you can get your own revelation from God to help you see what is wrong with your idea.
rockpond Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 46 minutes ago, Ahab said: I rely on God to guide me so it's not just me but God too, or at least my best understanding of God's will for what I should do. Yeah, I think that's the same methodology that ISIL/ISIS uses. Way to go! 1
ttribe Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ahab said: No, there are several problems with your idea. And you can get your own revelation from God to help you see what is wrong with your idea. Uh, huh. Actually, I'm hoping you might see the problems with your ideas.
Ahab Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 1 minute ago, rockpond said: Yeah, I think that's the same methodology that ISIL/ISIS uses. Way to go! This is what is referred to as poisoning of thr well, I think. I was saying EVERYONE/ANYONE can get personal revelation from God for themselves. If you don't think they're getting any you don't hsve to think or pretend that they are and personally I do not recommend that you think they are unless maybe you believe they are. And you're the one talking as if you believe they are.
ttribe Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ahab said: This is what is referred to as poisoning of thr well, I think. I was saying EVERYONE/ANYONE can get personal revelation from God for themselves. If you don't think they're getting any you don't hsve to think or pretend that they are and personally I do not recommend that you think they are unless maybe you believe they are. And you're the one talking as if you believe they are. Let me spell this out for you - The world is full of people who believe God is speaking to them (including you). Few, if any, of them agree with each other about what God is telling them. Hence, ISIS/ISIL, the Taliban, etc. How do you propose to fix that?
rockpond Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ahab said: This is what is referred to as poisoning of thr well, I think. I was saying EVERYONE/ANYONE can get personal revelation from God for themselves. If you don't think they're getting any you don't hsve to think or pretend that they are and personally I do not recommend that you think they are unless maybe you believe they are. And you're the one talking as if you believe they are. I don't believe they are. And I believe that you've already poisoned your own well. I agree that everyone and anyone can get revelation from God. I think that is a great way to live and recommend it to all. What we're (presumptively speaking for many on the thread) disagreeing with is your belief that you can/should pick & choose which laws to follow based on your understanding of God's will. Understanding and following God's will for oneself is great. Ignoring the laws of our society is a violation of our church's doctrine as well as a recipe for anarchy. 2
Ahab Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: So how do you get around that when honoring and sustaining the law is in an article of faith..relatively a church law. You don't think Joseph honored or sustained the extermination order in Missouri during his day, do you? Honoring and sustaining the principle of law... meaning the idea that societies should have good laws... is all well and good, but I won't (and I don't believe anyone else should either) honor and sustain any law that would honor and sustain/ uphold anything that is unrighteous.
Ahab Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 30 minutes ago, ttribe said: Let me spell this out for you - The world is full of people who believe God is speaking to them (including you). Few, if any, of them agree with each other about what God is telling them. Hence, ISIS/ISIL, the Taliban, etc. How do you propose to fix that? Good laws would help some, except that some people won't even obey good laws. Bad laws don't help any at all, including the bad laws that try to force or coerce people to help others do things that are bad. How about let's just do what we believe God wants us to do while knowing God will work it all out in the end, with a final judgment about what was good and what was evil?
ttribe Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Just now, Ahab said: Good laws would help some, except that some people won't even obey good laws. Bad laws don't help any at all, including the bad laws that try to force or coerce people to help others do things that are bad. How about let's just do what we believe God wants us to do while knowing God will work it all out in the end, with a final judgment about what was good and what was evil? So, back to anarchy again. Got it.
rockpond Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, Ahab said: You don't think Joseph honored or sustained the extermination order in Missouri during his day, do you? Ha. Yeah... that's the same as a non-discrimination ordinance. 11 minutes ago, Ahab said: Honoring and sustaining the principle of law... meaning the idea that societies should have good laws... is all well and good, but I won't (and I don't believe anyone else should either) honor and sustain any law that would honor and sustain/ uphold anything that is unrighteous. Warren Jeffs seems to also believe that what he has done is righteous. Oops, there I go again. #poisoningthewell 1
Ahab Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, ttribe said: So, back to anarchy again. Got it. Well, okay, if that's what you want to call it. I still believe in the principle of honoring and sustaining the principle of law and obeying all laws that are good laws, rejecting only what are unrighteous laws.
Jeanne Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 45 minutes ago, Ahab said: You don't think Joseph honored or sustained the extermination order in Missouri during his day, do you? Honoring and sustaining the principle of law... meaning the idea that societies should have good laws... is all well and good, but I won't (and I don't believe anyone else should either) honor and sustain any law that would honor and sustain/ uphold anything that is unrighteous. Then now wonder it was okay to destroy to printing press. Okay.....
Ahab Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Then now wonder it was okay to destroy to printing press. Okay..... If you're asking me then yes I believe it was okay and even good for the Nauvoo city council to destroy that printing press which printed that slanderous rag against the Church and the gospel. Not legal, maybe, but still a good thing to do. It's always good to do good things even when what is good is not legal. And it's always bad to do anything that is bad even when what is bad is legal.
Jeanne Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Ahab said: If you're asking me then yes I believe it was okay and even good for the Nauvoo city council to destroy that printing press which printed that slanderous rag against the Church and the gospel. Not legal, maybe, but still a good thing to do. It's always good to do good things even when what is good is not legal. And it's always bad to do anything that is bad even when what is bad is legal. Ahab, it was wrong and against the law.
Ahab Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Ahab, it was wrong and against the law. Good to know where you stand. Now we can see that we are opposed on this issue. 1
rockpond Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 4 hours ago, Ahab said: If you're asking me then yes I believe it was okay and even good for the Nauvoo city council to destroy that printing press which printed that slanderous rag against the Church and the gospel. Not legal, maybe, but still a good thing to do. It's always good to do good things even when what is good is not legal. And it's always bad to do anything that is bad even when what is bad is legal. I'm curious, what did it print that was slanderous. This is a CFR. 1
Russell C McGregor Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 6 hours ago, rockpond said: Yeah, I think that's the same methodology that ISIL/ISIS uses. Way to go! Ever heard of Godwin's Law?
thesometimesaint Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 19 hours ago, Ahab said: That's a bit different than what I'm talking about because there is nothing wrong with a person having black skin, but still yes nobody should have tried to force all businesses to serve everybody. Every person should have the right to serve anybody they want to serve. Even gay people, if people want to serve gay people. But still nobody, not even a government entity, should be forcing people to serve other people. You need to learn some more history before making such ludicrous statements.
thesometimesaint Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 19 hours ago, Ahab said: When given the choice of following a bad law and a good law I choose to follow the good law. A law that forces or coerces people to serve specific other people to help them to do something that is bad for them to do is a bad law. IOW Anarchy
thesometimesaint Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 17 hours ago, Jeanne said: Then now wonder it was okay to destroy to printing press. Okay..... Only if the Anti-Mormons do it. 1
thesometimesaint Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 12 hours ago, rockpond said: I'm curious, what did it print that was slanderous. This is a CFR. The Expositor incited violence against the citizens of Nauvoo.
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