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Moderation needs to be Fixed


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Well Board, I am out. At least until posters like Zakuska, salgare and consiglieri are no longer here. They are clearly not here in good faith and it makes any conversation entirely worthless. I can tolerate disagreement. But this is obviously trolling. And I don't tolerate boards that don't police that.

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5 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Well Board, I am out. At least until posters like Zakuska, salgare and consiglieri are no longer here. They are clearly not here in good faith and it makes any conversation entirely worthless. I can tolerate disagreement. But this is obviously trolling. And I don't tolerate boards that don't police that.

The problem is that rather than being a dialogue and discussion board that's focused primarily on the exchange of varying opinions from a cross section of faithful Church members, the inclusion of so many bitter former members and confrontational critics dooms almost every thread to become a defense of some aspect of mainstream Mormonism against gleeful, throw-anything-up-against-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks attacks by anti-Mormons. As it is, the board should actually be called the Faithful Mormon vs Anti-Mormon Debate Board.

I believe the solution is to have a separate forum where the faithful members and anti-Mormons can "mix it up" with the full knowledge that anti-Mormons and bitter critics are welcome to participate there. The main forum could be a more upbeat and edifying place where faithful members can exchange views without trolls constantly dragging the threads into the mud. The moderators know who the trolls are and it would be fairly easy for them to keep the trolls out of the "Faithful Member" forum.

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These are posters who were here long before most. I have learned from them all, and feel that it is not proper for us to judge others. We should trust in the mods and not seek emotional blackmail to get other posters banned. None of us should fear differing opinions or quick wit to be something to be feared, or so offensive that we are afraid to debate it or the authors who post it. 

Edited by Pa Pa
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25 minutes ago, Pa Pa said:

These are posters who were here long before most. I have learned from them all, and feel that it is not proper for us to judge others. We should trust in the mods and not seek emotional blackmail to get other posters banned. None of us should fear differing opinions or quick wit to be something to be feared, or so offensive that we are afraid to debate it or the authors who post it. 

As for myself, I said nothing of banning but having a separate forum where faithful Church members and critics can interact and debate away all the wish on any subject they wish. But it would be also be very good to have a forum reserved for believers who don't want to see every thread become an anti-Mormon debate; a forum where the LDS faith can be discussed on an elevated and edifying level without intrusion and hinderance from those whose sole purpose is to tear down and mock the LDS faith; a forum that would be more like an online symposium instead of a mud wrestling match. 

Edited by Bobbieaware
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1 minute ago, Bobbieaware said:

As for myself, I said nothing of banning but having a separate forum where faithful Church members and critics can interact and debate away all the wish on any subject they wish. But it would be also be very good to have a forum reserved for believers who don't want to see every thread become an anti-Mormon debate; a forum where the LDS faith can be discussed on an elevated and edifying level without the intrusion and hinderance from those who's sole purpose is to tear down and mock the LDS faith; a forum that would be more like an online symposium instead of a mud wrestling match. 

Two things: Having a place where everyone has the same views and are always of one mind, means no one could learn and most would be bored to death. The second point is one in which a witch hunt will happen to challenge who is a true member or a worthy member to be in such a forum. We must have the courage and confidence to defend our faith. 

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29 minutes ago, Pa Pa said:

Two things: Having a place where everyone has the same views and are always of one mind, means no one could learn and most would be bored to death. The second point is one in which a witch hunt will happen to challenge who is a true member or a worthy member to be in such a forum. We must have the courage and confidence to defend our faith. 

I don't know about you, but I'm one who never finds the Gospel Doctrine and priesthood classes boring. I believe there is enough diversity of opinion here among the believing members on this board to have elevated and interesting discussions, just like the ones I enjoy at Church.

it would be very easy to screen out those who don't belong on the faithful and believing member forum. All that would have to be done is to use the honor system and stipulate that if a participant donesn't believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true Church of Christ on earth, and doesn't believe that the current leaders of the Church are true living prophets, seers and revelators they are cordially envited to share their oppositional views of the LDS Church on the forum where advocates for the Church and critics of the Church can freely share their views. If it turns out that too few are interested in participating in the more elevated discussions that would occur on on the believing member forum to keep it going, so be it.

 

Edited by Bobbieaware
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1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

The problem is that rather than being a dialogue and discussion board that's focused primarily on the exchange of varying opinions from a cross section of faithful Church members, the inclusion of so many bitter former members and confrontational critics dooms almost every thread to become a defense of some aspect of mainstream Mormonism against gleeful, throw-anything-up-against-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks attacks by anti-Mormons. As it is, the board should actually be called the Faithful Mormon vs Anti-Mormon Debate Board.

I believe the solution is to have a separate forum where the faithful members and anti-Mormons can "mix it up" with the full knowledge that anti-Mormons and bitter critics are welcome to participate there. The main forum could be a more upbeat and edifying place where faithful members can exchange views without trolls constantly dragging the threads into the mud. The moderators know who the trolls are and it would be fairly easy for them to keep the trolls out of the "Faithful Member" forum.

Try LDS.net. It may be more of what you are looking for.

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I was speaking of having a forum just for members. I do not find the meeting in Church boring (sorry if that is the impression I was giving), but in Church all assume that you are devout and believing, and even if not they want you to attend hoping to change your mind. How would one do so in a forum, as there can be no agreed test to identify as a member, and unlike a desire for all to attend, in a forum you suggest their would be calls for people to leave...as the OP suggests. Think about it? 

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10 minutes ago, Pa Pa said:

I was speaking of having a forum just for members. I do not find the meeting in Church boring (sorry if that is the impression I was giving), but in Church all assume that you are devout and believing, and even if not they want you to attend hoping to change your mind. How would one do so in a forum, as there can be no agreed test to identify as a member, and unlike a desire for all to attend, in a forum you suggest their would be calls for people to leave...as the OP suggests. Think about it? 

Then I would modify the criteria for participation on the believing member form. It could be reserved for those who believe or for those church members who are wavering but still wish to believe. And remember, the believing member/anti forum would be a place where robust defenses of the Church could be viewed and considered by the unbelievers who occupy the middle ground of which you speak. In fact, the believing member/anti forum would be just as the general discussions forum is right now. But there would be another forum, a place where more elevated and edifying discussions among believing and sincere wavering Church members could take place without gleeful trolls mucking up the works with their mockery and disrespect.  I, for one, would be a participant on both forums, depending on my purposes and/or mood.

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1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

As for myself, I said nothing of banning but having a separate forum where faithful Church members and critics can interact and debate away all the wish on any subject they wish. But it would be also be very good to have a forum reserved for believers who don't want to see every thread become an anti-Mormon debate; a forum where the LDS faith can be discussed on an elevated and edifying level without intrusion and hinderance from those whose sole purpose is to tear down and mock the LDS faith; a forum that would be more like an online symposium instead of a mud wrestling match. 

You might enjoy LDS.net, I don't believe they allow posts critical of the church.

 

eta:. It looks like Ttribe already beat me to it.

Edited by omni
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1 hour ago, Pa Pa said:

Two things: Having a place where everyone has the same views and are always of one mind, means no one could learn and most would be bored to death. The second point is one in which a witch hunt will happen to challenge who is a true member or a worthy member to be in such a forum. We must have the courage and confidence to defend our faith. 

Interestingly enough the MDB board has just what Bobbieaware suggests.  Surprisingly the "Celestrial" forum seldom ever needs moderation and the rules are mostly kept.  However what has also been mentioned here is that forum is seldom used compared to the middle intensity forum which likely gets 95% o f the traffic.

Bobbieaware also noted:

"As it is, the board should actually be called the Faithful Mormon vs Anti-Mormon Debate Board. "

The old hard core apologetic history of this board seems to haunt it.  I do hope us "anti-mormons" (I don't mind critic) can/will tone it down.  With a little help from our friends hopefully "Dialogue and Discussion" will result.

 

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My observation:  balance is alwaysthrown off during holidays, people who don't usually post show up and moderation is less frequent.  We also now don't have spam daily and mods are probably trusting us to act like civil adults and not peeking in as much.

Usually only one or two newbies show up at a time and balance is kept by believers posting slightly less if the newbie is a believer or slightly moreif not...or a lot more if it is an anti along with some who are usually more critical if the guy is extreme.  We recently have had several posters posting more with less of the core posting because of getting used to the new format (which tends to cutdown on posting by longtimers) and then the holidays and they have significantly different styles to what I would identify as the board's average---which gives it a certain personality---so the average tone/concept mix is off from what it was.

I trust the mods will eventually come up with a balance I like because they always have in the past.  I don't think my tastes have fluctuated much over the years so it will likely be a balance other longtimers are comfortable with as well.  May take longer than usual due to the doublewhammy of format change and holiday, but I am probably patient enough.  However if you didn't like the balance prior to the changes, I wouldn't expect to like whatever new balance is achieved if I were you.

Edited by Calm
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2 minutes ago, omni said:

You might enjoy LDS.net, I don't believe they allow posts critical of the church.

I envision the forum of which I speak beimg a place where people could be very blunt and frank, even bringing up issues that would be considered negative and controversial .But the frank discussions would go on without the distracting antics of mocking trolls whose only goal is to tear down the faith.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Calm said:

However if you didn't like the balance prior to the changes, I wouldn't expect to like whatever new balance is achieved if I were you.

I did notice, and was pleasantly surprised before that a lot of tolerance was being given the regular critics at that time.  And of course they have been tolerant of me as well.

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4 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

The problem is that rather than being a dialogue and discussion board that's focused primarily on the exchange of varying opinions from a cross section of faithful Church members, the inclusion of so many bitter former members and confrontational critics dooms almost every thread to become a defense of some aspect of mainstream Mormonism against gleeful, throw-anything-up-against-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks attacks by anti-Mormons. As it is, the board should actually be called the Faithful Mormon vs Anti-Mormon Debate Board.

I believe the solution is to have a separate forum where the faithful members and anti-Mormons can "mix it up" with the full knowledge that anti-Mormons and bitter critics are welcome to participate there. The main forum could be a more upbeat and edifying place where faithful members can exchange views without trolls constantly dragging the threads into the mud. The moderators know who the trolls are and it would be fairly easy for them to keep the trolls out of the "Faithful Member" forum.

I find this to be a load of bs.  is every critic a "bitter critic" and an antimormon?   Dissenting positions should be welcome and encouraged otherwise just go to Sunday School or institute class and enjoy correlated discussions.   Rude and ignorant responses have been known to come from both sides of the table and not solely from these "trolls", "antimormons", and "bitter critics".  

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1 minute ago, sjdawg said:

I find this to be a load of bs.  is every critic a "bitter critic" and an antimormon?   Dissenting positions should be welcome and encouraged otherwise just go to Sunday School or institute class and enjoy correlated discussions.   Rude and ignorant responses have been known to come from both sides of the table and not solely from these "trolls", "antimormons", and "bitter critics".  

Read all my posts on this thread before you jump to conclusions. My position is more balanced and nuanced than you realize.

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14 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

Read all my posts on this thread before you jump to conclusions. My position is more balanced and nuanced than you realize.

I read your posts.  Even your one wishing for a site with no "gleeful trolls mucking up the works".   I appreciated the subtle nuance 

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Actually Brother Card hosts a forum at www.nauvoo.com where a couple of thousand LDS folk discuss all manner of things except politics.  There is another section for that. It is moderated so personal attacks and knock down drag out bickering is minimal. It functions like an online ward for people like me who live outside the US  or are shut in.  Some of the members have been there for a decade or more.  Some members know each other in real life.  It is an antidote to the world for me.

Someone sent me there after I got my tail feathers burnt on a now defunct discussion board Zion's something.  I have been forever grateful.

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1 minute ago, sjdawg said:

I read your posts.  Even your one wishing for a site with no "gleeful trolls mucking up the works".   I appreciated the subtle nuance 

Just as I thought, your emotions prevented you from seeing my points clearly. I'm not talking about a new sight. I'm talking about AN ADDITIONAL FORUM ADDED TO THE ONES THAT ARE ALREADY ON THIS SITE. Other than an additional forum added to the General Discussions, In the News and Social Hall forums, everything else on THIS SITE would remain the same. The additional forum would be for current members of the Church who want to have serious discussions of Goepel topics without having to be distracted by sniping trolls whose goal is the destruction of the Church. 

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33 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

Just as I thought, your emotions prevented you from seeing my points clearly. I'm not talking about a new sight. I'm talking about AN ADDITIONAL FORUM ADDED TO THE ONES THAT ARE ALREADY ON THIS SITE. Other than an additional forum added to the General Discussions, In the News and Social Hall forums, everything else on THIS SITE would remain the same. The additional forum would be for current members of the Church who want to have serious discussions of Goepel topics without having to be distracted by sniping trolls whose goal is the destruction of the Church. 

emotions?  I have never been accused of having those before. This is quite a plot twist.   Most people who know me tease me about being almost completely devoid of human emotions.   Were the others who disagreed with you (say PaPa and Calm) also blinded by emotion?  

I really don't care if you start a forum or a new site for only believing members.  Maybe it is a good idea and maybe it isn't.  I'm not sure.  I'm just pointing out that while advocating for a place to enjoy peaceful and serious discussions of gospel topics you are utilizing incendiary language to disparage those with differing beliefs.  (just the kind of language that might get someone blocked from the Utopian forum you are desiring)  I think if we all chose our words a little more carefully and respectfully (myself included unfortunately. I often let my caustic side get the best of me) then there is room in the existing forums for all variety of opinions.  Rude and ignorant people should be blocked regardless of which side of the equation their beliefs fall on. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by sjdawg
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3 hours ago, Calm said:

My observation:  balance is alwaysthrown off during holidays, people who don't usually post show up and moderation is less frequent.  We also now don't have spam daily and mods are probably trusting us to act like civil adults and not peeking in as much.

Usually only one or two newbies show up at a time and balance is kept by believers posting slightly less if the newbie is a believer or slightly moreif not...or a lot more if it is an anti along with some who are usually more critical if the guy is extreme.  We recently have had several posters posting more with less of the core posting because of getting used to the new format (which tends to cutdown on posting by longtimers) and then the holidays and they have significantly different styles to what I would identify as the board's average---which gives it a certain personality---so the average tone/concept mix is off from what it was.

I trust the mods will eventually come up with a balance I like because they always have in the past.  I don't think my tastes have fluctuated much over the years so it will likely be a balance other longtimers are comfortable with as well.  May take longer than usual due to the doublewhammy of format change and holiday, but I am probably patient enough.  However if you didn't like the balance prior to the changes, I wouldn't expect to like whatever new balance is achieved if I were you.

That is a well thought out and considered response.   Thank you.

 

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5 hours ago, sjdawg said:

emotions?  I have never been accused of having those before. This is quite a plot twist.   Most people who know me tease me about being almost completely devoid of human emotions.   Were the others who disagreed with you (say PaPa and Calm) also blinded by emotion?  

I really don't care if you start a forum or a new site for only believing members.  Maybe it is a good idea and maybe it isn't.  I'm not sure.  I'm just pointing out that while advocating for a place to enjoy peaceful and serious discussions of gospel topics you are utilizing incendiary language to disparage those with differing beliefs.  (just the kind of language that might get someone blocked from the Utopian forum you are desiring)  I think if we all chose our words a little more carefully and respectfully (myself included unfortunately. I often let my caustic side get the best of me) then there is room in the existing forums for all variety of opinions.  Rude and ignorant people should be blocked regardless of which side of the equation their beliefs fall on. 

I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was dealing with emotionless android. Perhaps that's the reason why you don't get what I'm trying to say?

All I'm saying is that it would be nice to be able to have a forum on this site where members of the Churvh could discuss the Gospel without comments from a 'peanut gallery' of Church enemies who drag nearly each thread into the realm of anti-Mormonism. Far from being "Utopian," a separate forum for Church members only would feature a tremendous amount of passionate debate and conflicting opinions (some of the most knock-down drag-out debates I've had on this board have been with other active Church members) because there is enough diversity of opinion within the ranks of the Church (think, for example, conservative vs progressive members) that the forum would be more than lively. But it would be a place where Church members with a wide diversity of opinions could debate as a Church family without commentary from enemies of the Church who all too frequently.sidetrack what could otherwise be productive discussions. And remember, the rest of the Board's forums would remain exactly as they are now.

Here's the most important reason why I believe a separate member forum would be a good idea: As the world ripens more and more in iniquity, I believe it won't be long before it will be impossible to have a civil and edifying discussion of the LDS faith anywhere on the Internet. In fact, I predict that within 5 years this site will be almost completely commandeered by enemies of the Church and it will be quite nearly impossible to have a.friendly and productive doctrinal discussion of the LDS faith. THERE IS EVEN THE DISTINCT POSSIBILITY THAT WITHIN FIVE YEARS TIME EVEN A MEMBERS ONLY FORUM WILL BECOME DISTINCTLY ANTI-MORMON (by then there will be many more members who will come out in open opposition to the Prophet and the other Church leaders), but at least in a members only forum the debate will be amongst opposing factions within the Church without compounding the conflict by including outside enemies of the Church into the debates who would by shear numbers be able to tilt any and all discussions in favor of the member factions who have turned against the leaders of the Church. 

But do I think anything will be done to keep this site from being largely taken over by those who oppose the LDS faith and its leaders? Not at all likely.

 

Edited by Bobbieaware
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